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Uhuru

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bluegray
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« Reply #90 on: May 19, 2008, 13:18:03 PM »

This will be my first and only post.

In light of current events, it is clear that you all are very naive.
Can I at least ask what current events you are referring to?
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« Reply #91 on: May 21, 2008, 14:09:05 PM »

Hi guys…

Have been following the topic of UHURU for about a year or so and was sceptical from the outset but once I saw the DVD, things started to change. I became more alert to things going on around me. Now, Uhuru doesn’t necessarily have to be that organised. It’s a simple fact of the haves and the have not’s! If youre earning no salary and cost of living doubles, what happens? (28% of population) If youre earning a meagre salary while supporting 2 or 3 others and cost of living doubles, what happens? Youre forced into a situation of do or die. What the suidlanders are trying to get across is the fact that everything is in place, all we need is a spark. Like Mandela dying and we have a funeral for 7 days!!! Singing old songs, Uniting… After that week you have 2 choices, go back to working for the oppressor or start joining the other 70 000 looting, killing and destroying our country. I would join…

So, all it takes in this volatile environment is for 50 000 people to go wild and the whole country can go up in flames. I think the events referred to is the killing of foreigners.Im an economics major and I can tell you, looking at whats going on in the world, in SA and our Monetary polcies etc. were in BEEEEEEEEG trouble.

Good Luck to all, Ill send money to the suidlanders from Ireland (Where I hope ill be!).

Pawpaw1000
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bluegray
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« Reply #92 on: May 21, 2008, 16:18:03 PM »

Hi, and welcome to the forum. I hope you'll stick around longer than most of the people in this thread seem to Wink

Now, Uhuru doesn’t necessarily have to be that organised.
Sure, but that is what the uhuru conspiricists are saying. That it is an organized plan waiting to be put in action by black people to get rid of white people.
It’s a simple fact of the haves and the have not’s! If youre earning no salary and cost of living doubles, what happens? (28% of population) If youre earning a meagre salary while supporting 2 or 3 others and cost of living doubles, what happens? Youre forced into a situation of do or die.
Yes, but there are many ways to do. Most people won't just start resorting to violence. Those that do, will be in the minority.
What the suidlanders are trying to get across is the fact that everything is in place, all we need is a spark. Like Mandela dying and we have a funeral for 7 days!!! Singing old songs, Uniting… After that week you have 2 choices, go back to working for the oppressor or start joining the other 70 000 looting, killing and destroying our country. I would join…
So, all it takes in this volatile environment is for 50 000 people to go wild and the whole country can go up in flames.
And this is why they won't be taken seriously. The senario you are describing is just rediculous.
Besides, if the country is such a volatile environment, aren't there better ways to solve the situation than to start spreading unfounded hate speech? Even if their intentions are good, they are not helping at all.
I think the events referred to is the killing of foreigners.
Yes, I suspect so too.
Im an economics major and I can tell you, looking at whats going on in the world, in SA and our Monetary polcies etc. were in BEEEEEEEEG trouble.
That is debatable, if you want to add some facts to that statement, please start another topic.
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DomSA
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« Reply #93 on: May 21, 2008, 16:41:21 PM »

Oh...alos <sweet smile> Wink
May I warn you bunch of skeptics of impending danger. Xenophobia is just the beginning. They are coming for the "Settlers" too. They are busy practicing. Laugh, joke, fight, disagree. But I know that when they come.... they are gonna torch us just the way they are busy doing to the foreign nationals.
Have a nice day.
Kitty =^..^=
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pawpaw1000
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« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2008, 09:21:15 AM »

ok, stem nie daarmee saam nie. Dont think this will spread to the settlers but it is proof of how powerless the government is against the masses...
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« Reply #95 on: May 23, 2008, 14:11:25 PM »

I just want to highlight pieces of a recent Mail & Guardian article. http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=339874&area=/insight/insight__national/.

Interviewing Jeppe hostel induna Simon Mvelase he said the following: “What makes the foreigner so lucky and special? How do they get the houses, the jobs, the cars and the businesses?”.

He said the government should have woken up a long time ago. If the maize price increased and people lost their jobs to foreigners, there had to be a revolt.

When is the question going  to  be, what makes a white person so lucky and special? A lot of us have jobs, houses and cars.....
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« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2008, 10:42:20 AM »

Hi there,
Sorry for the long post…. But….hmmm… ja well no fine!

I know I am new here, and I am not one who jumps from blog to blog. I need to throw a cat among the pigeons.  I also disassociate myself with politics in SA as there is really nothing we can do about it. However, when it comes to Ururu… maybe I can help. Firslty, to the person known as BT… let me explain why you have been uninformed.  You state that the fraud charges in Balfour were dropped. NO they were not. The R92 000.00 was paid by “suidlanders” to get him off the case. This is not an assumption. It is public record. Please feel free to check. Secondly, The charges regarding the firearm did not evaporate into thin air, the case continues in Kerksdorp Regional Court 3 in September (also a matter of public record). This man is also being investigated for treason. (I bet you didn’t know that!!!!) So you see…on just only those two points you have already been misinformed.

Now here it may get a bit dirty…. But without malice. You state that you know Mr. Gustav Muller well. I doubt that. When he started out he was squeaky clean. He stated that he did not want to be a leader, yet has now embraced that role wholeheartedly. They were not asking for money, yet they collect money on every front. Just check their websites. He was never a Military Intelligence officer of any kind, yet is extremely militant. He basically uses information that is given to him by fools and then catagorises it as his own. He preaches from the Word of God yet is living with a young lady and is still a married man (his poor wife). A really upstanding, considerate, law abiding, bible abiding citizen. He owes millions, and lives off the kindness (gullibility) of others mostly older folk.  People who as myself saw DVD 1&2 are impressed and the man has a valid case for discussion, but when you get to DVD3&4 etc the wheels fall off.

Then we get to Meisiekind… aka Racheljie Be Beer… aka Tanya Du preez. It is for this soul I feel truly sorry. Maybe the fact that her husband (also on charges of firearms) ran off with Gustav’s secretary (who also happens to spew biblical verses continuously) may shed some light on the fact that she no longer sees herself as a comrade. I’d be pissed. Look at the bigger picture…

Kubaan… well you have jumped from site to site  with your two cents… so I would say that you too could be a bit dicey. I think you are a whaky for having the balls to challenge the boer community so I will reserve judgement for when I meet you one day. You should know that anyone who shares negative views on the Big Boere Volk are traitors (ja nee). But at least you have done a bit of homework.

Hey DUDE, I am truly hoping you find all you are looking for in your meeting. I too am prepared for anything, but I will never again fall into a trap where I am led on by a fool. It takes a while for the pieces to fall into place… but when they do tit hurts like a bitch leaving you felling used, abused, and an utter idiot.
Proof… that I have… as I did my homework thoroughly, just to find that Gustav is a liar. His plans are not concrete, But I thank him for the effort. When you lie about small things people tend to wonder if you are lying about bigger things. It is soley due to Gustav that I am now a skeptic.

Hat’s off to Anacoluthon64. This man is intellectually sound and sarcastic at the same time. (My new hero….).

Skeptically

Scooby Doo Grin
PS: If you want to run with the dogs…. Don’t piss like a puppy!
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Mefiante
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« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2008, 11:07:15 AM »

Hello, and welcome to the forum, scooby doo.

Hat’s off to Anacoluthon64. This man is intellectually sound and sarcastic at the same time. (My new hero….).
Actually, I’m a woman, but it’s very sweet and kind of you to say.  In truth, I’d rather you looked to the hero inside yourself – you know, the one that has the courage to challenge and to question and to investigate as you describe yourself doing in your illuminating post.

So the hat’s off to you, too (with no sarcasm at all Smiley ).

'Luthon64
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scooby doo
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« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2008, 15:49:03 PM »

Hi there,

Good to know ... now we have something in common. You see... it's a woman thing! Thanks... Nothing like a good challenge!

Scooby Doo
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Vegita
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« Reply #99 on: June 02, 2008, 22:10:06 PM »

Hi to all that comment on this blog.

I have read the whole Uhuru blog from beginning to end.  Interesting.  I have a few cents worth of questions and info I would like to share.  A lot of people, it seems, are trying to link Siener van Renburg to this phenomena.  Could someone answer these questions.

1.  Who decides that a person that makes a prediction is suddenly a prophet?
2.  By what criteria do you claim the source of your prophecy?

I have read  Snyman's book about Siener van Rensburg.  I don't agree on a lot of assumptions drawn.  Reason being that I have also studied extensively  on Biblical prophecy.  Therefor I would like to present a few pointers that I have discovered when studying prophecies.

1.  For any prophecy to be termed "Fulfilled" All aspects of the prophecy must be fulfilled also in chronological sequins it was given.  As an example.  If 5 specific points are mentioned, a, b, c, d, e.  Then all 5 must be fulfilled and in the order given not a,c,e,b,& d. 
2.  A very important criteria is that all the elements within a prophecy must be taken as literal unless the prophet explains the meaning of symbols used himself.  - Just to explain this one.  I don't want to start a discussion on the Bible but have to use it as an example.  If a prophecy in the Bible use symbols then only the Bible can give the meaning of the symbol.  -  So with Siener van Rensburg's symbols, one will have to look at all his writings and see what he himself write about the meaning of the symbol.

That brings me to the source of the prophecy.  No human being can predict the future.  People can have dreams and speak to any psychologist and he will tell you that what ever bothers you in your subconscious, you tend to dream about.  It is a process that our human brain uses to sort through things that needs to be put in place.  The problem is that some people act upon a dream as if it was given by some divine intervention.

That brings me to a very important point.  Who in this universe has the power to see what will happen tomorrow?  If there is someone like that and he/she can tell me about it then we have to look at the reasons why a being like that would give it to me in the first place.  If it is to save my life then I have a very serious question I would like to ask that being.  Millions of people have died by worse catastrophic events than what Uhuru is supposed to be about.  Why warn a small group of 'boere' when thousands are dying by an earthquake and thousands more by natural disasters that could be avoided if the people could be evacuated in time.

Now if there are such a Divine being that could do this he/ she will use a language that will not have 10 million different interpretations.

The tragedy of Uhuru is that with all the talk around it some people will use it as an excuse to kill and those that want it to be a fulfillment for whatever their reasons are, will say  'I told you so'

Sorry about this long post. I am skeptical about these things yet I try to be realistic too.

Cheers.
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« Reply #100 on: June 24, 2008, 07:26:22 AM »

Strange, I tried to send a personal mail to scooby-doo 2 weeks ago.  Can you believe it, no reply!  Makes me wonder where she got her info from???
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« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2008, 11:19:20 AM »

Dear South African Skeptics,
Sorry bout the long post

this is my first post... ever, damm this is exciting stuff! Having read 95% of the comments, questions, replies, acuisations and verbal abuse (hole crap people, I remember reading something about "open mind" in the biggining). No offence to anyone, just interesting to note how people can attack (verbally) each other in an open discussion on an issue about Uhuru - some discussions get a bit side tracked at times and I think needs to be moved to another forum.

On the issue Uhuru... I myself have doubts about an event so inhumane and disturbing as Uhuru. I have read the book of Siener van Rensburg who does make mention of such a night attack:

“A man would be standing on his verandah in the evening, looking out over the city and say to his wife: “What a beautiful evening.” However, the barking dogs will awaken them in the early hours of the morning and they will hear gunfire and bloodthirsty screaming of the attackers running through the streets. Then they will realise that it has begun. However, nobody will be able to stop them and thousands will be killed in that night attack.”

This 'vision' is to be fullfilled with the burial of a Black King, as stated in the book of Siener van Rensburg. The interesting part regarding this event is that I don't remember reading anything on the prediction by Johanna Brandt in this forum:

Her prediction of a night attack in 1916:
Johanna Brandt, the wife of a church minister, received the following message in 1916 regarding the bloodbath that will take place in South Africa: “Look!” the Angel told her. She looked and saw a miniature native assegai (spear) lying before her on the floor. She then saw the beginning of a strike that would spread countrywide, and high in the air she saw the letters, XL (Roman 40). Everything had come to a standstill. Big business houses were closed and deserted. Nothing functioned any longer.

The strikes are so large that the whole country is paralysed. While in progress, blacks are secretly organising and one night they gather in Johannesburg. Then everything happens quickly and unexpectedly – they cut the power lines in and around the city.

After that she saw them enter the ‘White’ areas and murdering people everywhere, sparing nobody. Thousands upon thousands will die during that “Egyptian night” that will descend on the resident of Johannesburg, she warned.
“When I saw all the maimed bodies around me, I was shocked and called out loudly: “This cannot be, because there are not that many people in Johannesburg!”


It is interesting to note that both these "prophets" call them what you will make reference to a period of silence (no work, 7 days etc), strikes and then the burial etc.

Everyone is intitled to there own opinion therefore my 2 cents worth:
Beign a Christian I believe that God provides warning signs to all people, the Bible is full of prophosies and warnings, I try and live by the Bible as far as humanly possible and take note of interesting predictions as a matter of being knowledge and aware if such events were to take place. In my opinion there is some grounds for an event of this nature due to recent events. It is unfortunate that leaders are allowed to make statements invoking hate, violence etc. I refer to Julius Malepe and the article by Faraday Nkoane.

I will leave it at that for now and hope to have some response be it positive or negative... remember people, keep an open mind!

Excuse my English, my spelling sucks I know but I do try, as I are actualy Afrikaans and can like to life on a plot with sheep and all that shi..!

Regards
Interested
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« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2008, 13:35:02 PM »

Hi to all that comment on this blog.
A belated hello and welcome to you too, Vegita. Smiley



Could someone answer these questions.

1.  Who decides that a person that makes a prediction is suddenly a prophet?
2.  By what criteria do you claim the source of your prophecy?
  • Initially, a small mob of uncritical followers, spurred on by suitably grave and mystical intonations by the soon-to-be prophet, which gravity and mystery is held to be of supernatural origin by said mob owing to its utter incomprehensibility.  Later on, the thing largely sustains itself by sheer momentum but further growth is fuelled by an endless succession of credulous dolts.
  • The more fearsome and extensive the prophecy, the holier is its source.  One researcher (Sayer, 2001) has proposed that the source’s holiness Hs grows as the fourth power of the prediction’s extensiveness E (since there are four dimensions) and exponentially with its fearsomeness F.  Mathematically, Hs = kH×E4×eg×F where kH is the universal holiness constant and g is the local gruesomeness constant.



Now if there are such a Divine being that could do this he/ she will use a language that will not have 10 million different interpretations.
Quite so, and it would be good if other people grasped this very plainly visible obstacle whenever they are faced with some or other alleged oracular prognostication.



The tragedy of Uhuru is that with all the talk around it some people will use it as an excuse to kill and those that want it to be a fulfillment for whatever their reasons are, will say  'I told you so'
Indeed, and that is why uncritical subscription to the Uhuru idea may well yet turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy and, furthermore, why critical appraisal of it is so important.



Strange, I tried to send a personal mail to scooby-doo 2 weeks ago.  Can you believe it, no reply!  Makes me wonder where she got her info from???
Her post mentions “public record” twice in regards to fraud and firearm charges.  The rest of her post strongly suggests firsthand experience, but, strictly, I’m only guessing.  As for why she doesn’t answer your PM, again I can’t say for sure, but perhaps she has nothing to say or to discuss with you in private.



On the issue Uhuru... I myself have doubts about an event so inhumane and disturbing as Uhuru. I have read the book of Siener van Rensburg who does make mention of such a night attack:



… I don't remember reading anything on the prediction by Johanna Brandt in this forum:



It is interesting to note that both these "prophets" call them what you will make reference to a period of silence (no work, 7 days etc), strikes and then the burial etc.
First, hello and welcome to the forum, Interested.  The above seems to imply that you view these common elements as mutually confirming of van Rensburg’s and Brandt’s predictive accuracy.  If that is so, then perhaps you have also considered the possibility that Brandt had previously heard or read van Rensburg’s account and may merely have pilfered some of its details for embellishment of her own version.



Beign a Christian I believe that God provides warning signs to all people …
And “all people” presumably includes hindus, moslems, wiccans, shintoists, jews, buddhists, et cetera.  Why then would people quibble incessantly over both the content and origin of these supposed warning signs?  And why should these warnings even be necessary in the first place if god could just as simply stop any and all disasters from ever happening?



[R]emember people, keep an open mind!
Yes, that’s what this forum is about but unfortunately many people interpret “keep[ing] an open mind” to mean no less than “believe everything I say and don’t dare disagree or question.”

'Luthon64
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« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2008, 14:44:52 PM »

Thank you for the kind welcome Luthon64,

Firstly,
regarding the question from Vegita - just my opinion:
Quote
1.  Who decides that a person that makes a prediction is suddenly a prophet?
As far as I understand someone (don't ask me who) decided that if one makes predictions based on spiritual influence he or she is seen as a "Prophet". If he or she uses methods to induce these visions then he or she is classified as a "Clairvoyant". So in my opinion it is based on the influence or source of the vision.

I will not even try to answer question 2.

With regards to the statement "10 million different interpretations":
I agree that every one is always an expert and every one has there own explanation or answer relating to the predictions made by others - just like art, everyone's always an expert. I also agree that some predictions as with Nostradamus are written in riddles and who knows what they mean as only he knows. Keep in mind though that what he saw in his time regarding the future must have been very difficult to put into words as he had no idea what an aeroplane etc was. His visions however was mostly seen in an induced state and based on astronomy and the use of water.

I disagree on the predictions of Siener as they are fairly straight forward and not written in riddles. He does however make use of symbols etc, but do agree that he would be the only one to know exactly what they mean. That is why the book "Words of a prophet" is compiled based on the predictions and interpretations of Siener himself, not by some third party as with allot of other prophesies... once again Nostradamus comes to mind.

On the subject "tragedy of Uhuru":
Couldn't agree more that it will most definitely be a tragedy. The question being who will do the killing, we who debate about it, or maybe someone in a desperate situations (poor, hungry, frustrated) fueled by propaganda, threats and leaders blurting out statements which they defend as being right. I doubt that anyone in their right mind would want to see something like this fullfilled, I pray that the predictions are wrong and never come to be. Unfortunately there are some predictions from Siener that has been fullfilled and that is what makes gets my attention.

On Siener and Johanna Brandt:
No one can say that it points to the same event but it does however raise concern that two predictions depicting an attack was made. I am not implying that it is the same but it makes me think.

Whether Johanna Brandt read Sieners prediction:
No. Johanna's prediction was made in 1916, Siener's prediction was only made in 1921, Siener also makes no mention of Johannesburg. Now you'll ask maybe Siener read Johanna's prediction? Read... not likely, possible but not likely, as he only read the Bible. Johanna published her prediction to the church in 1918 and was banned for that, she also translated it into 5 different African languages. Taking into account that Siener lived in Rietfontein and Johanna in Pretoria, which are appr 130km appart and taking into account communication mediums and transport during those days (bloody slow) it is considered very unlikely.

All people:
Most definitely, every believe has there own array of predictions and warnings regarding the future with the exclusion of Hindu and maybe some other believes. As mentioned I see it as warnings, whether you believe it something else. When I say warning then I imply only that. God alone decides the future of all mankind, so yes, if God wanted he could stop these type of events if they were true. However mans inability to live in peace and harmony usually tends to turn into some or other disaster. I also mentioned that I pray to God that all this is but talk.

I hope this sheds a bit more light on my opinion and look forward to any further discusion. Thank God for spell checker... much better hey?

Heard a little roomer that Zimbabwe is at war... is this true, can anyone comfirm this for me?

Regards
Interested
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« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2008, 17:54:30 PM »

On the subject "tragedy of Uhuru":
… Unfortunately there are some predictions from Siener that has been fullfilled and that is what makes gets my attention.
Please would you name some of these fulfilled predictions and what van Rensburg allegedly said.  Also, what source(s) do you consult for this information?

On Siener and Johanna Brandt:
No one can say that it points to the same event but it does however raise concern that two predictions depicting an attack was made. I am not implying that it is the same but it makes me think.

Whether Johanna Brandt read Sieners prediction:
No. Johanna's prediction was made in 1916, Siener's prediction was only made in 1921, Siener also makes no mention of Johannesburg. Now you'll ask maybe Siener read Johanna's prediction? Read... not likely, possible but not likely, as he only read the Bible. Johanna published her prediction to the church in 1918 and was banned for that, she also translated it into 5 different African languages. Taking into account that Siener lived in Rietfontein and Johanna in Pretoria, which are appr 130km appart and taking into account communication mediums and transport during those days (bloody slow) it is considered very unlikely.
Despite more than due efforts, I have been unable to locate any authoritative resources that corroborate the Brandt/van Rensburg events and chronology you outline above.  Do you have a credible source or two to substantiate the above?

All people:
… God alone decides the future of all mankind, so yes, if God wanted he could stop these type of events if they were true. However mans inability to live in peace and harmony usually tends to turn into some or other disaster. …
I find this confusing, if not self-contradictory.  If your god alone decides humanity’s future, then surely that specific future will happen, irrespective of what any human or group of humans does.  So how can people’s supposed inability to live in peace and harmony with their fellows possibly affect your god’s preordained outcome?  And why would s/he then even bother to warn certain specially chosen individuals of these outcomes?

Also, I would ask that you please refrain from using coloured typefaces, especially yellow, because as you no doubt can see, they are quite hard to read.

'Luthon64
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