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Why do people believe 911 was a conspiracy?

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bluegray
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« on: October 17, 2006, 09:14:42 AM »

People usually like to believe weird things because they need to. It fills some emotional gap or creates a sense of belonging to something or some group. I can understand that people will want to believe in warm fuzzy things like going to heaven or the easter bunny, but I have trouble figuring out just what's in it for people to believe that the WTC was demolished by the US government and not terrorists.

Any thoughts?
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Mefiante
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2006, 11:39:19 AM »

At the risk of stating the obvious, conspiracy theorists are usually completely hooked on confirmation bias without being aware of it.  Just about any fact can be suitably bent to fit in with the theory, and thus provide further "confirmation."

I suspect that the basic motivation for believing in conspiracy theories is much the same as that for believing in a personal god and devil: essentially, so that one can declare, "It's not my fault!" when something bad happens.

When things go wrong in our lives or with our plans, it is comforting to "know" that these happenings were beyond our control, and also how to avoid a recurrence of them in the future.  We are blameless if something bigger than us is responsible for our misfortune, something we cannot possibly hope to exert any influence over.  When, in addition, we can assign to that agent a deliberately evil or destructive agenda, our own innocence seems even more unblemished, we seem even less culpable, and we can denounce it with even greater confidence, justification and righteousness.

In a nutshell, "Don't look at me - I'm OK.  But just look at what they have done!  Shocking."

And, no, I don't know how to begin addressing such a mindset.

(My 64 cents' worth, if it matters at all, comes from many interactions with a close relative who is a conspiracy nut.  Angry )

'Luthon64
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qrios
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2006, 14:45:35 PM »

Even though I agree in principle with what Luthon64 is saying(I actually find it quite plausible, and a good viewpoint old chap...), I feel he might be generalising a bit....

A lot of things can be considered conspiracies, even by those who were not involved at all, or those who could not really care about who is to blame....

Then again, in hindsight, some things are a just to weird to be coincidental....
http://www.davidicke.com/content/category/6/19/33/
Why would David Icke lie about a thing like that?? Grin Grin

Me, I'm still trying to find out If I can drink TAB or Sprite Zero because of the Asparteme conspiracy..  Roll Eyes

http://www.dorway.com/badnews.html
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bluegray
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2006, 15:50:55 PM »

A lot of things can be considered conspiracies, even by those who were not involved at all, or those who could not really care about who is to blame....

If you believe it, then you are getting involved and do care. Which is why I want to understand the motivation behind the belief. Even if you are not directly involved.

Then again, in hindsight, some things are a just to weird to be coincidental....
http://www.davidicke.com/content/category/6/19/33/
Why would David Icke lie about a thing like that?? Grin Grin

Coincidence in itself proves nothing. And why wouldn't David Icke lie? There is a lot of reasons he might choose to do so. And even if he genuinely believes what he is saying, it does not prove him right.

Me, I'm still trying to find out If I can drink TAB or Sprite Zero because of the Asparteme conspiracy..  Roll Eyes

http://www.dorway.com/badnews.html
Now this I can understand. It will effect you personally if it turns out to be harmful, so caution is in order. But being careful is different from accusing the parties involved as being part of a conspiracy.
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Mefiante
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2006, 16:01:52 PM »

When some people, who are not directly involved in some event, also believe that there is a conspiracy about that event, this is really just a further bit of confirmation bias on the part of people who are prone to believing in conspiracies: "Look, there's another conspiracy!  The fact that it exists is more proof that all the other conspiracies I know about are, in fact, real."  In other words, it's useful for "proving" one's objectivity.

However, it is hard to see how someone who doesn't really care about whom to blame for something can believe that there is a conspiracy about that thing.  This curiosity needs some explanation.  (ETA: I see you have already spoken about this, bluegray V.)

Human beings are very, very adept at inventing after-the-fact "explanations" for just about anything that happens to or around them.  Also, one will always find individuals who turn their passions, good or bad, into their livelihood.  It's merely a case of taking those passions a few steps further than most other people.  David Icke is one such individual, but possibly not the best example - Pat Robertson may well hold that dubious distinction.

'Luthon64
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 16:04:09 PM by Anacoluthon64 » Logged
qrios
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2006, 17:01:54 PM »

I made the wrong assumption that you knew , has seen or has read about Icke, that's why I used him. My mistake.
He was debunked, but more for his radical approach, even though some of his conspiracies could not be debunked...
When some people, who are not directly involved in some event, also believe that there is a conspiracy about that event, this is really just a further bit of confirmation bias on the part of people who are prone to believing in conspiracies: "Look, there's another conspiracy!  The fact that it exists is more proof that all the other conspiracies I know about are, in fact, real."  In other words, it's useful for "proving" one's objectivity.

However, it is hard to see how someone who doesn't really care about whom to blame for something can believe that there is a conspiracy about that thing.  This curiosity needs some explanation.  (ETA: I see you have already spoken about this, bluegray V.)

I was saying that if someone does NOT care about who is to blame, it can not be said that he is conspiring - just because he makes a reference to the "so called" conspiracy.
Knowledge of does not equate acknowledgement or approval.

Still don't know If I can drink Tab..

Luthon....Do you know anything about the aspartame saga??
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Mefiante
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2006, 17:43:00 PM »

I made the wrong assumption that you knew , has seen or has read about Icke, that's why I used him. My mistake.
He was debunked, but more for his radical approach, even though some of his conspiracies could not be debunked...
Well, I have encountered David Icke's name several times in the past, but haven't kept up to date with his comings and goings.  There are higher profile crackpots out there.  And, just as a point of order, it would be a mistake to assume that because a few conspiracy theories of Icke's (or anyone else's) could not easily be shown to be duff, that those are the ones that are true.


Still don't know If I can drink Tab..

Luthon....Do you know anything about the aspartame saga??

I'm afraid I don't.  The sum total of my knowledge in this context is what I have heard some time ago about the furore through the proverbial grapevine - and that is very little, apart from such titbits being generally unreliable.  You see, it's a topic that isn't of any great consequence to me or mine as we hardly ever consume such beverages.  Here are some search results from Quackwatch - you may find some useful info there.

'Luthon64
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 17:44:36 PM by Anacoluthon64 » Logged
qrios
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2006, 18:01:58 PM »

I have got a few videos on David Icke, and in the beginning he sounded quite enigmatic and convincing, but when he started to attack/belittle people instead of issues, I lost Interest. He did a series of 3 videos on Credu Mutwa, the Zulu Historian, which I found quite interesting....



WYou see, it's a topic that isn't of any great consequence to me or mine as we hardly ever consume such beverages.  Here are some search results from Quackwatch - you may find some useful info there.

'Luthon64


Thanks for the link... will check it out.....

BTW.
Quote
we hardly ever consume such beverages

Do you always talk like that, or do you occasionally have a drinkGrin
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Mefiante
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2006, 18:26:42 PM »

BTW. Do you always talk like that, or do you occasionally have a drinkGrin
Glo dit of dan nie - soms raak ek selfs getrek!

'Luthon64
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qrios
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2006, 08:56:45 AM »

 Grin

You surprise me!!!
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Mefiante
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2006, 09:28:59 AM »

Which part?  The Afrikaans, or the thought of an ostensibly pompous ass getting platzed?  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2006, 09:32:14 AM »

I think it was the Afrikaans!!! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 16:34:30 PM »

Still don't know If I can drink Tab..
Luthon....Do you know anything about the aspartame saga??


I'm afraid I don't.  The sum total of my knowledge in this context is what I have heard some time ago about the furore through the proverbial grapevine - and that is very little, apart from such titbits being generally unreliable.  You see, it's a topic that isn't of any great consequence to me or mine as we hardly ever consume such beverages.  Here are some search results from Quackwatch - you may find some useful info there.


Mm, plenty has been written about the subject of Aspartame.  What you'll find on Quackwatch is pretty much what you'll find on the official Aspartame website that the manufacturer provides.  They claim that the product is safe, and that the FDA has approved it, so one need not be concerned about the ravings of a few loonies.

Of course, that does not reveal that the process by which Aspartame was approved by the FDA was highly irregular.  It also happens that Donald Rumsfeld was hired by G.D. Searle to get the product through the FDA because of his contacts on the Capitol.

Most of the time, Aspartame is ok.  One tends to consume it in small quantities, and the vast majority of people are not sensitive to the metabolic breakdown products of the ingredient that is not on the label, methanol, in particular formaldehyde and formic acid.  Methanol is 10% of Aspartame.  Some people are highly sensitive to the methanol metabolites and get symptoms ranging from headaches to those mimicking MS and Lupus.

The problem with the FDA and the approval process in general is that of lack of transparency.  "Trust us.  We are experts".

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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2007, 16:40:26 PM »

I have trouble figuring out just what's in it for people to believe that the WTC was demolished by the US government and not terrorists.

Why do you believe that the WTC was demolished by terrorists?  Because you saw it on TV?  Because George W. Bush said so?

What proof have you seen that it was a group of Al Queda terrorists sent by Osama bin Laden that hijacked aircraft and flew them into the twin towers?

Either way, it was a conspiracy.  People think that it's smart to label ideas that originate outside of the mainstream media "Conspiracy Theories", pronounced with a sneer.

It isn't smart at all to be closed minded and believe only what you see on TV or read in YOU magazine.  Or Popular Mechanics, for that matter.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 17:10:04 PM by bluegray V » Logged
Mefiante
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2007, 17:09:50 PM »

It isn't smart at all to be closed minded and believe only what you see on TV or read in YOU magazine.  Or Popular Mechanics, for that matter.
Neither is it smart to hold forth, sans offering any evidence, with belligerent finger-pointing and lukewarm mockery, and expect to be taken seriously.  Especially when there's a confluence of evidentiary lines.

It's just a thought, though.

'Luthon64
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