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i couldn't resist...

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GCG
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« on: March 23, 2011, 09:24:46 AM »

following my visit to the ink and iron festival, and being exposed to the hipocracy of the woo, i ended up on a site of the biker's church, and the following emails ensued.  a bit long, but something to read if you are bored:

Quote
Sent: 22 March 2011 02:40 PM
To: lefe@mweb.co.za
Subject: biker mayhem

Leon

I have a fundamental problem with Christian bikers.  since the biker lifestyle is synonymous with drinking, smoking, tattoos, promiscuous women, and so on.
on your website www.adr4jesus.co.za/, I find the following images...


I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (NIV, 1 Timothy 2:9-10)
1 Corinthians 6:19-20: "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
Leviticus 19:28: "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord."


Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Matthew 15:11 It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”
Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.
Really, why don’t you just say you approve of promiscuity, and you promote the use of vulgar language, like doos and piel. 


 1 Corinthians 5:11, 13 "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one, no, not to eat... therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
Titus 1:7-8, "For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine...But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just holy temperate.

so, on your site, you promote women walking around with cleavage showing, and wearing almost nothing, in front of young children no less.  drinking freely and openly.  even though the bible makes it very clear that drinking is not what god wants for his temple.  you mark your bodies with tattoos and piercings,  and apart from defiling god’s temple, you spend thousands of rands in tattoos and bikes and drink, which could have fed and educated plenty of needy individuals.
how can you ride in the name of Jesus, yet  flaunt your disrespect of the bible and everything it preaches?  all you are, are hypocrites and sinners.  you walk around proclaiming Jesus and god, while you live like the lawless.  do you think, that by wearing badges with ‘Jesus’ this, and ‘god’ that, and collecting bibles, will guarantee your place in heaven? 
and while you may proclaim that when Jesus came to earth, he washed us of our sins, and he re-wrote the old testament  laws with ‘love thy neighbour...’,  how exactly are you loving your neighbour,  by spending thousands of rands on tattoos and drink and expensive bikes.  I know what tattoos cost, and I have had first hand witness to the Jesus-crowd’s behaviour at the Ink and Iron this year.  drunk, swearing like troupers, smoking like chimneys...  what kind of behaviour is that?  who are you fooling?  do you think that going to church on Sunday,  with fellow bikers, because the general church-going Christians does not approve of you and yours, is going to get you to heaven?  do you think, that god would be proud of having individuals such as yourselves, as his spokespersons in this world? 
you want to have your cake and eat it.  you want to drink, smoke, swear, and still hide behind your bible, because you think,  if you drag god and Jesus into your fraternity, it will make it ok.
you are still sinners, and wearing patches with this or that bible/Jesus rally, doesn’t make you a good Christian.  it doesn’t even make a mediocre Christian.
I sat at Ink and Iron, and watched the bikers, their wives and girlfriends, smoking, looking like trash.  exposing their kids to drunkenness and women dressed like prostitutes,  swearing, being racist,  obviously drunk,  women with long, fake, nails,  tattoos all over, and sporting Jesus-this, god-that, bible-this,  all over their jackets and vests.
what on earth?  where is the piety in that?  how is that what god wants?  how is that a good example of a Christian lifestyle?  do you think there is room in heaven for those who hide behind the name of god, and still sin, because they get to be in a church that approves their drinking and vanity?
I think not sir.  I think god must be so disappointed, and I would imagine rather angry, at people such as yourself, using his name, his bible, his son,  and acting like filth.  shame on you!  shame on you for exposing your children to this kind of lifestyle.  shame on you for using god and the church to validate your own sins.

Regards



Quote
Leon [lefe@mweb.co.za]
Tue 2011/03/22 05:02 PM
Thank you for the email
I wish to clear up the matter so that you understand where we coming from and what work we do in the biker community.
As you rightly point out in the photos, we attend all biker functions, we spread the word but we don’t shy away from what happens out there, we show it as it is.
It is going to serve no purpose if we show the one side of the biker life style and hide the other.
These are the people we working with, I am asking, should we only show the Christian side of life or do we show all.
I prefer to show all, you then will understand how difficult our line of work is, or do we shy away and look elsewhere.
No I don’t think so.
I can also not put up a website, showing what you want to see, there is a world out there that is not kind to all, that is the world we move in, also with great success.
A while ago, some of those that feature in those photos had given their lives to the Lord, 58 of them one Sunday eve. So is our work in vain?? Do we show only what you would like to see, or do I show the facts as we see them every day.
Yes I agree with you, lots are wrong as is smoking, drinking, adultery, swearing, did Jesus visit the churches or did He move under the sinners??? Our calling is to be with the sinners, to bring them to salivation, but I cannot hide behind the facts that those things happen in the biker community and elsewhere.
Once again, I show it as they appear.
I will not just show what you or any other Christian wishes to see, I am not hiding facts to please people, yes you can make a difference, join us, come into the evil den and lets work this together.
I will not tell you how to dress, what to wear or say, I am not at liberty to tell her not to wear a bikini, but to wear a full costume, I have no right, neither has any pastor or anybody else for that matter, but we have the right tell her about Jesus, how He died for her and all of us.
I will have certain photos changed, I do not have a problem with that but I will not make to be somebody that I am not. My calling is to be there, nude or dressed, drinking, or smoking, I have a calling to full fill. Should this site then offend you, I am sorry but we can not hide from the truth no matter what
Thank you


and then

Quote
I once again read your letter, you are judgemental, which you have no right to as the Bible is clear, do not judge other as you will be judged.
Secondly, instead of having so much to say, why not join the fight and make a difference instead of criticizing.
If the Ink and Iron was so offensive, why did you stick around and enjoy the view, how many of those bikers did you speak to to lead them to the Lord?Huh?? None I think.
Remove the bean from your own eye before you try and remove the beam from somebody else.
You say you disgusted with me, we so be it, I know my standing with the Lord, Do you?? Only asking.,
You mention tattoos, is it because you cannot have one or are you opposed to them ? Jesus brought us a new covenant, the laws and the rules changed, read about it and understand it.
Another thing that strikes me is that not once have you used Gods name or Jesus name when written in capital letters, why don’t you know better or do you just don’t know that we respect our Father God and Jesus
Lady please do not point fingers as there are more pointing back to you.
Why not once again join us in the fight of satan instead of chirping.
You have yourself a Godly day and remember to respect our Father God, even when you write.




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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 09:26:04 AM »

so i said:
Quote
firstly. I’m an agnostic.  so god’s name, or capitization thereof, is of no subsequence to me.
secondly,  I once again hear you say how you will remain a typical biker, who smoke, drink, swear, and vainly spend money on your appearance, while toting god as saviour.  and you say you have to go ‘into the den of evil’ in order to save those souls.  what bullshit.
as per my standing with god, I know that I don’t need the threat of eternal damnation to be moral.  I am disgusted with your ilk, because I see the behaviour, and sit there, thinking, how holier-than-thou they will be when their religion is pushed into a corner, as you are being now, but they act decidedly unchristian.  if I had kids, I would never expose them to this kind of stuff at such young ages.  I wouldn’t drink like that, then load my wife on the bike, and risk both our lives on the road because I’m pissed.  I would never proudly wear a badge proclaiming one thing, then be a blatantly open, hypocrite.  it makes me gag.  I work for a charity.  so whether or not I believe in god, my heart is in the right place.

I would like to comment on some choice things you have to say:

you are judgemental, which you have no right to as the Bible is clear, do not judge other as you will be judged
I judge because I am an impartial observer, and this whole culture smacks of hypocrisy, and I wonder how you manage to bring together a blatantly sinful existence, with being a follower of god?

If the Ink and Iron was so offensive, why did you stick around and enjoy the view
why did you?  if the place was so riddled with sinners, why were you there in the first place.  I didn’t see you speaking to people, trying to convince them of the errors in their ways.  I didn’t hear you preach over the loud-speakers.  hand out leaflets.  I didn’t see you object to people getting pissed out of their trees.
I was very disgusted at the general behaviour of the human species there, and I don’t intend to go back again.  but I was there to support my tattoo artist.  so I stuck it out for his sake.  I couldn’t get out of there fast enough.

how many of those bikers did you speak to lead them to the Lord?Huh?? None I think.
neither did you, I think.

Jesus brought us a new covenant, the laws and the rules changed, read about it and understand it.
HA!! I  knew you were going to throw that at me.  Jesus changed the rules, so we can do what we want.  BUT, you still hang on to the rules that suit you from the old testament.  paying your tithes, a woman has to be submissive to her husband, basically the ten commandments then, since Jesus rules all of them out by dying on the cross.  so as long as you ‘love thy neighbour’ you are fine.  how are you loving your neighbour by spending money on drink and tattoos and bikes, when that money could have fed hungry kids, educated them...?  do you know, that a R1000 could keep a kid in school for a year?  that is one upper arm tattoo.  you can’t even buy a leather jacket for that.  if Jesus ever existed, and he went through unimaginable agony to die for his people, then people spending thousands of rands on bikes and tattoos and leather jackets, and proclaiming they are ‘riding for Jesus’, would have him shaking with anger.  it pisses me off just watching this whole meme unfold.

Lady please do not point fingers as there are more pointing back to you.
I don’t smoke, I barely drink.  I work for a charity with minimum wage.  I never drive under the influence of drink.  I don’t spend my money on false nails, expensive toys...  I spend my money giving a good home to abandoned animals.  and I am not a hypocrite. i’m in a monogamous relationship.  i don’t steal.  i do, however, say things as they are.  and that it takes an outsider to point out the obvious defects and double standards in your institution, should make you open your eyes, and not get defensive.  and people wonder why i got rid of religion as soon as my mind was able to differentiate between truth and lies.

Why not once again join us in the fight of satan instead of chirping.
satan doesn’t make you drink.  satan doesn’t compel you to have a tattoo done.  satan doesn’t convince you to buy an expensive bike with all the trim.  it’s so easy to blame satan.  a convenient scapegoat for human greed.  
and since when is observing the truth called chirping.  would you have had the same to say if a journalist published all these findings?

we attend all biker functions, we spread the word but we don’t shy away from what happens out there, we show it as it is.
really?  these galleries are hardly ‘don’t do this little kids’ kind of exhibition.  it’s a ‘look how much fun we had, drinking and fondling half naked women’ thing.  these photos are an advertisement as to how much fun is to be had.  the good, clean, Christian fun, mind you.   the kind of fun that involves booze and cigarettes.    

given their lives to the Lord, 58 of them one Sunday eve.
and how many times have they ‘given their lives to the lord’ before?  you think I am not knowledgeable about how this works?  be reborn today.  drink tomorrow, go home drunk, beat up on your wife and kids.  be reborn again next Sunday.  it’s nonsense.  it’s called peer pressure.  it’s called wanting to fit in.  I know people who will have ‘demons’ driven from them, just because the neighbour’s wife had one driven out of her two weeks ago.  people like attention.  I doubt very much those people are planning to stick to moral ways.
have those 58 people stopped drinking?  no
have those 58 people stopped swearing?  no
how many of your congregation would sell their bikes, if it meant that they could feed a family, or put a kid through university?  I bet you, brother, none. not a single one.

I will not just show what you or any other Christian wishes to see, I am not hiding facts to please people
oh come on!! what?  where on your entire site, is there a case of, see this picture, this lady used to be like this, showing her tits around, then she turned to the lord, now she looks like this?  where?  you show these images, because that’s what you guys do.  you drink, you whore.  I didn’t have time to look through all the galleries, but in the 6 that I looked at, there wasn’t a single photo of you actually helping out needy kids,  cleaning a school bathroom, attending an AA meeting, attending a lecture on responsible road-use.  promoting a book by someone paralysed by drunk-driving.  giving support to women who are abused by their drunk and chauvinistic husbands.  all the images are party, party, party.  beers in hand, cigarettes in hand.  where are the captions that say ‘this is not how a Christian should act’ or ‘this is not how the temple of god should behave’.  why?  because you condone it.  you say you have to move amongst the vipers to do your work.  then why are you promoting the lifestyle, by showing what an awesome time the sinners are having.  
your pictures of the rally’s.  everyone is drinking, tattooed.  where is the salvation in that.  it just shows how cool it is to be lawless and irresponsible.  if I was a youngster, looking at your site, I wouldn’t get the message that drinking, and getting tattooed, and having pre-marital sex, is against god’s wishes.  I would get the message, that I can drink, and smoke pot, and drive drunk, and still get into heaven.  because if I do the bible-rally, I’ve done enough.

I have no right, neither has any pastor or anybody else for that matter
then what are you doing running a site like this?  if you are not willing to put yourself out there, to preach morality,  to face a biker, to stand in front of him, and tell him he’s wrong.  it’s a fake ministry you are trying to grow.  these people aren’t interested in living morally,  they are interested in keeping the door to heaven open with one foot, while keeping the door to the strip joint open with the other.
you are not in the biker community because you want to ‘enter the evil den’, you are in the community, because you want to drink and smoke and swear and be vain, while still claiming to be a child of god.  you want to be a biker, but be a Christian.  the two kind of cancel each other out, don’t you think?
in my view, you are either a Christian, in full colour, or you are not.  there are no gray areas.  you either live a good, clean moral life, to the T, or leave it be.  you can’t a sort-of Christian.  if you aren’t willing to be pure for your religion, then you shouldn’t call yourself religious.  that’s called being a hypocrite.  you can’t be a sort-of vegetarian.  you can’t be kind-of pregnant.  you are either 100% committed, or 0%.

My calling is to be there, nude or dressed, drinking, or smoking, I have a calling to full fill.
so, you basically just confirmed to me, again, that you want to have your cake and eat it.  you want to smoke and drink, and watch half-naked chicks,  spend thousands upon thousands or rands on your toy.  but balance it out, because you preach god?  if your calling is to preach the gospel, then you should be an example, strive to be without sin.  how on earth are people supposed to take your seriously, to follow your lead, and follow you to god, if you, yourself, live a life of hypocrisy?  

all of these excuses, these explanations, are just your ammunition against the blatant truth.  you can’t hold a bible with one hand, and a brandy with another.  no matter what who in the bible says.  isn’t the basic message, to live morally?  but your site, encourages a lifestyle of immorality.  and blatantly so.
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 09:26:52 AM »

and i got this in my inbox today:
Quote
You know who ever you are, you carry on enjoy your life the way you see it.
I don’t have time for this nonsense, secondly do you want a pat on the back cause you help stray dogs, I am impressed, so now that I have made your day by patting you, for all the charity you do, you admit you drink, so maybe you do drive drunk?Huh??? You and God will know, secondly, I don’t have anything further to say to you.
Should you email me again, I will delete your mail without opening it.
May God touch your heart and soul, to open your eyes to the Kingdom that you missing due to your out look in life
Bye for now, we will meet at JUDGEMENT day, which ever way it will go


a WIN for me, i think....
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Mefiante
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In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται


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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 09:59:11 AM »

Mrs Malaprop strikes with a trio of priceless faux pas:
Quote
Our calling is to be with the sinners, to bring them to salivation…
Yeah, can’t you just see ’em, all those drooling sinners!?



Quote
Remove the bean from your own eye…
Eina!  Koo baked bean?



Quote
… while toting god as saviour.
So god’s been bagged, then?

'Luthon64
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cyghost
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Carpe diem


« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »

Quote
Should you email me again, I will delete your mail without opening it.
Yep, a win  Cheesy
Quote
May God touch your heart and soul, to open your eyes to the Kingdom that you missing due to your out look in life
Christ Jesus
Quote
Bye for now, we will meet at JUDGEMENT day, which ever way it will go
And the not so veiled threat.  Roll Eyes
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GCG
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adele horn
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 10:35:08 AM »

Quote
… while toting god as saviour.
So god’s been bagged, then?

'Luthon64

bagged, tagged, and on sale mister!
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 10:44:21 AM »

God makes people moral huh?

I think what you may have achieved here, is that even though he fails to admit it publicly, you may have given this person a moment to pause for thought. He may even say something at a rally (and get kicked out).
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 07:33:42 AM »

Nice GCG!

Love the bean....  Cheesy
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