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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2010, 01:19:29 AM »

Before I even go further, I *DID* say I'm of *TWO* minds about this. Maybe I didn't say it LOUDLY ENOUGH?!

You are complaining about bad roads and then complaining about road improvements

I complained about the way in which, and the incompetence with, this was done. Please don't misrepresent my statements. Also I pointedly stated that I would've preferred tax payer money be used for this than making provincial roads a private enterprise. (Alas, I think I have a suspicion where my tax money resides in leu of that happening)

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You are complaining about traffic jams and then complaining about a high speed train built to alleviate it.

Once again, completely missing the point. "JHB Subway" = way overdue. Overbudget monster of a mess, not so much. One day when they complete it I'm sure it'll be great.

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Oh well, maybe we should just stop all development and slowly wait for everything to crumble and fall apart like in the rest of Africa.

Yeah maybe we should just leave our dearly incompetent leaders to be blissfully incompetent and never have a bad word to say to them. Surely this will make our country unlike the rest of Africa. Critisism is for negative people anyway, we'd rather not try to improve things. Leave our infallable politicians be, we love under-achievement.

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Anyone who is opposed to progress and development has dubious motives in my opinion.

Defending the status quo is dubious in mine. In everything, seek always improvement. (Maybe it's just because in my work environment, harsh critisism is seen as healthy and a welcome opportunity for a lesson to be learnt, YMMV)

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It will a much more affordable proposition for the live in PTA and work in JHB crowd.

Once the roads are a business, I'm sure it will be. Me, I think it's much more about convenience, and I'd gladly take it (If I needed to)

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Are you seriously suggesting a train project should be scrapped because of the possibility that a deaf, blind homeless person with the IQ of a lemon might amazingly find his way underground and stumble into the path of an oncoming train?  You call that a realistic argument?

Yeah deaf homeless people deserve to die, freck them. Anyway, it's pretty close to the truth. The Gautrain will never be operated at near the true maximum speed (that was initially envisioned). This is because it was deemed that, in an South African context, there are too many people walking on the tracks and it'd be too dangerous for them. (and we know fencing wouldn't help one bit).

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In that case we should immediately ban cars, trucks, busses, trains, razors, knives, forks, spoons, toothpicks and peas, to name a few items potentially lethal to the unsupervised mentally retarded!

That is one heck of a straw man you got there.You may as well add soft squishy toys to that list too, they're evil.

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If you want to call yourself a realist, please be realistic and resist the temptation to speculate wildly.  I would suggest you take a day off and take the business train from Pretoria to Joburg.  See what an amazing thing it is.  Perfectly safe, occupied mainly by business people, luxurious and affordable.  It resembles any train in Europe and is just as comfortable and safe.

I've heard of this train. Pretty cool, but doesn't seem to have won over the bulk of travellers.
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threeholerhauler
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2010, 06:46:59 AM »

Was there a point during your reply where you figured out that the points I addressed were not in response to your earlier comments, but in direct response to the post GCG made after you?

But seeing as you insist:
Call me negative if you wish.... I don't really "get into" sport at all

Neither do I.  Have never, and will probably never watch 10 minutes of what I think is one of the more boring and unproductive sports on earth.  There does however seem to be a rather large number of fans who feel differently.

it shows us once again that despite massive amounts of money being spent, and external help being fielded, in Africa we can still screw things up: The gautrain way over time and as we all know WILL not be finished in time for the WC (in fact it overshoots by a full year). They've only managed to get one part of what they'd promised would be operational (and only because the need was dire). The project is way over budget and was marred by industrial action (squeezing the man for all he's worth)

Do you realise that precious few major civil projects are ever completed on time and on budget in the world?  It most certainly is not an African phenomenon.  I am the first to criticise African incompetence, but crying wolf will render legitimate complaints invalid.
Case in Point:  Boston's Big Dig: Overshot all its deadlines.  Overshot budget by around $12 Billion, yes BILLION, make that nearly $20 Billion with interest.  Several collapses have led to deaths.  Criminal charges for negligence.  Constant leaks to this day.  Faulty bolt installations.  Major sections paid for, built but never used, etc etc.
http://www.associatepublisher.com/e/b/bi/big_dig.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig
http://www.designnews.com/article/484-Boston_s_Big_Dig_One_of_Engineering_s_Biggest_Mistakes_.php

You can also look at the Channel Tunnel, Millau viaduct, Kansai airport (Still sinking) etc etc.

Construction wise there were no major problems with any of the stadiums and in fact the beautiful Soccer City was delivered months ahead of schedule.

The roads... much the same story and yes, will be tolled, by quite a margin. It will be nigh-impossible to drive around greater Gauteng without incurring a toll. "Government" road infrastructure is now a thing of the past. Govt says this is because they can't afford to build roads; Where DID my tax money go again?

I fully agree.  It is insane to toll roads used to carry the daily commercial lifeblood of the country.  There should be no toll.  And if there is, it should be token only.  1 cent/ km will still earn them a killing, but won't be felt by the average motorist.  The proposed 50 cent/km is pure robbery and most of it will probably end up in obscure pockets.

Meanwhile, our suburban roads have been carrying much heavier traffic than what they were designed for, this means they are now in shambles and with the impending tolling being proposed, I'm guessing our urban roads are going to become the routes of choice for heavy vehicles... thus I don't see a light at the end of that tunnel, especially since they're already unable to repair much of it. (And this is all because the roads are never resurfaced when they should, with no hope on them being resurfaced in the near future).


Yes, suburban roads have been carrying more traffic as a consequence of the highways being upgraded so that the suburban roads don't have to carry so much traffic!!! Not rocket-science!
In my opinion, and probably in the road department's as well, it would be prudent to wait until the highways are completed before upgrading the suburban roads thus not elevating traffic problems to traffic standstill.  As every road crew in the country has been occupied on the highways in recent years, there obviously was a lack in human resources.

The gov have stated that they plan on instituting a complete ban on heavy vehicles on secondary roads when an alternative is available.

..................Continued on the next post.............................
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threeholerhauler
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« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2010, 06:48:09 AM »

.............Continued from the Previous Post.................

On to your reply to the post I never made to you:


Before I even go further, I *DID* say I'm of *TWO* minds about this. Maybe I didn't say it LOUDLY ENOUGH?!

Yes, I know you did.  THAT IS WHY I DID NOT RESPOND TO YOUR POST!!

I complained about the way in which, and the incompetence with, this was done. Please don't misrepresent my statements.

I did not misrepresent your statements because.....I DID NOT REPSOND TO YOUR POST!!!


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Oh well, maybe we should just stop all development and slowly wait for everything to crumble and fall apart like in the rest of Africa.

Yeah maybe we should just leave our dearly incompetent leaders to be blissfully incompetent and never have a bad word to say to them. Surely this will make our country unlike the rest of Africa. Critisism is for negative people anyway, we'd rather not try to improve things. Leave our infallable politicians be, we love under-achievement.

No, sir, you miss the point.  I WAS NOT RESPONDING TO YOU!!!  I was responding to this statement:

and im allso not convinced about the Gautrain.  my mum said sumthing years ago when they started with the nonsense, that every hobo is going to park off in the tunnels, and get squished.   and the poor buggers that got bullied out of their houses, and had to sell for less than market value.  and the people whose property value is dropping coz the track is passing by their back door.

As I hope you can see, I was at NO point suggesting a halt to the critising of government or of projects.  I was being sarcastic in response to a ridiculously reactionist argument which has little or no basis in reality even though the author deems herself a realist!

I am a great proponent of criticising the gov.  You will often find letter of mine in the Star and the Citizen.  My local DA councilor is also rather tired of my letters and calls.  I am actively involved in a campaign to declare organisations like the Black Lawyer's Forum, Black Editor's Forum and the Black Business Forum racist in nature and in opposition to our constitution.


Again...I WAS NOT RESPONDING TO YOU!!!


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In that case we should immediately ban cars, trucks, busses, trains, razors, knives, forks, spoons, toothpicks and peas, to name a few items potentially lethal to the unsupervised mentally retarded!

That is one heck of a straw man you got there.You may as well add soft squishy toys to that list too, they're evil.

Indeed a strawman argument!  Meant as a satirical, sarcastic and ironic reply to the statement below in an attempt to show how ridiculous it is:


and im allso not convinced about the Gautrain.  my mum said sumthing years ago when they started with the nonsense, that every hobo is going to park off in the tunnels, and get squished.   and the poor buggers that got bullied out of their houses, and had to sell for less than market value.  and the people whose property value is dropping coz the track is passing by their back door.

Do I need to say it.... You guessed it....I WAS NOT RESPONDING TO YOU!!!

I've heard of this train. Pretty cool, but doesn't seem to have won over the bulk of travellers.

Afraid to say, you've got to do a bit more research on this one. 
A:  It is not meant for the BULK of travellers, because if it were it would be just another overloaded, dangerous  Metrorail train...
B:  The train has been so successful that a friend of mine doing her PhD at Wits was on the waiting list for the train for over 6 months.  She eventually got a regular ticket when they added a second business train due to the Huge demand.
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Tweefo
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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2010, 15:22:45 PM »

I have to agree with Threeholerhauler here. All these negative waves....... Life is not so bad.
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2010, 15:54:33 PM »

People.

Plural form, I guess you could see the confusion. The lack of quoting also makes it entirely unclear who you are adressing. I see you've now quoted things directly, well done.
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GCG
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skeptical mantis is skeptical


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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2010, 09:54:29 AM »

its called ranting you jackass.  take a pill already.
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Watookal
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« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2010, 15:57:12 PM »

I got my bafana outfit for free, but they only had Large. Be honest, does this make my bum look big.
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GCG
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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2010, 16:10:19 PM »

erm..... not at all. (retch)
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