South Africa Flag logo

South African Skeptics

December 10, 2019, 12:01:49 PM
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
Go to mobile page.
News: Please read the posting guidelines before posting.
   
   Skeptic Forum Board Index   Help Forum Rules Search GoogleTagged Login Register Chat Blogroll  
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic:

Capitalist Party of South Africa

 (Read 2354 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +13/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1866



WWW
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2019, 08:00:22 AM »

This report:

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-05-10-sas-biggest-electoral-losers-say-goodbye-to-the-minnows-outsiders-underdogs-and-chancers/

is almost gleeful about how badly the "extremist" parties lost. Well, some of them are extremist. The Purple Cow did not strike me as extremist at all. And real extremist parties like the EFF and the Freedom Front both did significantly better this election than they did last time, which I would consider somewhat worrying news; fortunately, while both did better, they did not do spectacularly better because both started from a low base.
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3128



« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2019, 08:26:56 AM »

The BLF, however, will not be missed.
Logged
Tweefo
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1551



WWW
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2019, 09:40:23 AM »

This report:

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-05-10-sas-biggest-electoral-losers-say-goodbye-to-the-minnows-outsiders-underdogs-and-chancers/

is almost gleeful about how badly the "extremist" parties lost. Well, some of them are extremist. The Purple Cow did not strike me as extremist at all. And real extremist parties like the EFF and the Freedom Front both did significantly better this election than they did last time, which I would consider somewhat worrying news; fortunately, while both did better, they did not do spectacularly better because both started from a low base.
Bet you, that communist son of mine (again, where did I go wrong?) would like to have a word with you about the capitalist's not being extremist. But I agree with you the FF+ and the EFF. We really don't need shit like that. I voted DA, but it was more a vote for the opposition than for the DA specifically.
Logged
Mefiante
Defollyant Iconoclast
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +61/-9
Offline Offline

Posts: 3757


In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται


WWW
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2019, 11:44:13 AM »

And real extremist parties like the EFF and the Freedom Front both did significantly better this election than they did last time, which I would consider somewhat worrying news; …
But I agree with you the FF+ and the EFF. We really don't need shit like that.
I’m not so sure about that.  An argument could be made that the growth seen in both the EFF and the FF+ serves as a buffer that absorbs many of the more radical and conservative elements of the ANC and DA, respectively.  That is, the growth of those two parties has an important potential positive effect in that it will serve to consolidate the more moderate elements in both the ANC and DA, so that the two will be able to get on with the business of governance with less internal friction.

Whichever way it ultimately pans out, parliament will be an interesting thing to watch over the next few months.

Overall, the election results so far paint a depressing picture:  As a whole, SA’s voters are mostly content to perpetuate the past decade of governance, with only a fairly small fraction voting for something different.

'Luthon64
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3128



« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2019, 12:20:59 PM »

ANC (Numbers rounded because why not)

2004: 70%
2009: 66%
2014: 62%
2019: 57% (Provisional)

Quote from: Mefiante
SA’s voters are mostly content to perpetuate the past decade of governance, with only a fairly small fraction voting for something different

Welcome back. Smiley

I think the above shows that, over time, every little bit helps. Let's applaud the trend.
Logged
Rigil Kent
Clotting Factor
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 2467


Three men make a tiger.


« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2019, 13:35:13 PM »

I think everyone who voted for the ZACP should meet up at a Wimpy to brainstorm the way forward. I'll book one of their larger booths.
Logged
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +13/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1866



WWW
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2019, 14:45:33 PM »

This report:

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-05-10-sas-biggest-electoral-losers-say-goodbye-to-the-minnows-outsiders-underdogs-and-chancers/

is almost gleeful about how badly the "extremist" parties lost. Well, some of them are extremist. The Purple Cow did not strike me as extremist at all. And real extremist parties like the EFF and the Freedom Front both did significantly better this election than they did last time, which I would consider somewhat worrying news; fortunately, while both did better, they did not do spectacularly better because both started from a low base.
Bet you, that communist son of mine (again, where did I go wrong?) would like to have a word with you about the capitalist's not being extremist.

The funny thing is that the capitalist party was furiously attacked by some or other uber-libertarian for not being libertarian enough. :-)
Logged
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +13/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1866



WWW
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2019, 14:52:54 PM »

I’m not so sure about that.  An argument could be made that the growth seen in both the EFF and the FF+ serves as a buffer that absorbs many of the more radical and conservative elements of the ANC and DA, respectively.  That is, the growth of those two parties has an important potential positive effect in that it will serve to consolidate the more moderate elements in both the ANC and DA, so that the two will be able to get on with the business of governance with less internal friction.

All perfectly valid points; I would much rather see the angry young men vote for someone than rampaging through the city. The mere fact that there is a party there for them to support already helps to moderate them a bit. But I sure hope said parties don't manage to attract more than ten percent or so of the vote.

Quote
Whichever way it ultimately pans out, parliament will be an interesting thing to watch over the next few months.

It's do or die for Ramaphosa now. He got pretty much exactly the right number of votes: the ANC lost enough support to worry them, and it's pretty clear it was Zuma and his pals who cost them that support. But at the same time they didn't do so badly that they can hold Ramaphosa responsible. Which means he can now purge his party of every last Zumaite. He'd better do so quickly or he too will not finish his term before being "recalled," after which the Zuma types will have a free hand to plunder whatever is left to plunder. Heck, they might even bring zuma himself back.

If Ramaphosa plays his cards well, a renewed ANC might well win several more elections. Or for all I know, even govern until Jesus comes back. If they do a proper job, I don't mind either.

A dangerous situation would be if they got 51% of the vote, held Ramaphosa responsible and got rid of him, and then, knowing they would not win another election, go on a final plunder spree while they still could.

Quote
Overall, the election results so far paint a depressing picture:  As a whole, SA’s voters are mostly content to perpetuate the past decade of governance, with only a fairly small fraction voting for something different.

'Luthon64

Yup. The ANC at least got a little bit hammered, but for the rest, things remained pretty much the same. I think people are very nervous about even the idea of large scale change. That might not necessarily be a bad thing, or at least, not the worst possible outcome.
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3128



« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2019, 11:20:44 AM »

I’m not so sure about that.  An argument could be made that the growth seen in both the EFF and the FF+ serves as a buffer that absorbs many of the more radical and conservative elements of the ANC and DA, respectively.  That is, the growth of those two parties has an important potential positive effect in that it will serve to consolidate the more moderate elements in both the ANC and DA, so that the two will be able to get on with the business of governance with less internal friction.

All perfectly valid points; I would much rather see the angry young men vote for someone than rampaging through the city

I'd say this is the main reason I think the VF+ is less radical than the EFF. The EFF's counter is probably more like the AWB.

Quote
Quote
Whichever way it ultimately pans out, parliament will be an interesting thing to watch over the next few months.

It's do or die for Ramaphosa now. He got pretty much exactly the right number of votes: the ANC lost enough support to worry them, and it's pretty clear it was Zuma and his pals who cost them that support. But at the same time they didn't do so badly that they can hold Ramaphosa responsible. Which means he can now purge his party of every last Zumaite.

I think it's a toss-up whether this is possible at all. Time will tell I guess.


Anyhow, I did vote purple cow, and I feel really happy I did. I don't think I "wasted" a vote because it now feels, more than ever, that they needed every single vote they got. It feels like it mattered, if only to legitimise them for next time. I think, getting as close as they did.... with a 6-7 week campaign on a shoe-string budget, Compared to how much noise a "party" like the BLF makes.... is still pretty damn impressive. I'm glad my vote didn't get drowned in a sea of votes for a party I don't believe in anyway.

Pity about Gauteng though...
Logged
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +13/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1866



WWW
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2019, 12:41:06 PM »

I'd say this is the main reason I think the VF+ is less radical than the EFF. The EFF's counter is probably more like the AWB.

Yes, at least the VF's leadership is vastly more civilized and responsible. I do get the impression though that the party attracts a great deal of the openly racist and theocratic vote, partly because there isn't really anyone else they can vote for, except perhaps Dan Roodt's outfit, which everyone knows is a wasted vote. :-)

Quote
I think it's a toss-up whether this is possible at all. Time will tell I guess.

If he doesn't manage to assert control, the ANC will likely not get 50% next time. Then it will be coalition government time, and an excellent opportunity for smaller parties.

I see Max du Preez suggested that the responsible part of the ANC and the DA should actually merge. They have pretty much similar policies anyway. Then the Zuma-ites and EFF can work together, and we'd have a large and fairly middle of the road party, with some smaller ones on the left and right.

I suppose it isn't a very likely scenario, and it's risky too. Such a new party might lose all support the two separate ones had.


Quote
Anyhow, I did vote purple cow, and I feel really happy I did. I don't think I "wasted" a vote because it now feels, more than ever, that they needed every single vote they got. It feels like it mattered, if only to legitimise them for next time. I think, getting as close as they did.... with a 6-7 week campaign on a shoe-string budget, Compared to how much noise a "party" like the BLF makes.... is still pretty damn impressive. I'm glad my vote didn't get drowned in a sea of votes for a party I don't believe in anyway.

I agree. They actually didn't do half bad for a recently formed party; such new parties seldom get much traction the first time round. They must now just keep doing what they do and not make the mistake of the Libertarian party and KISS. The libertarians are so busy fighting internecine wars over the finer points of ideology that they never get around to even putting up a candidate. And KISS never bothered to even have a website, let alone such things as regular blog posts and press releases. The stupid party name also made it look like a loony outfit, which it probably was.

If the purple cow plays her cards right, they will get many more votes next time. They must just stay away from too much ideology, keep on focusing on actual plans, and keep up their visibility by regular updates on their website, and regular press releases about current issues. If they do that they may well have my vote again next time, because I have resolved that at least for national elections, I will henceforth vote my conscience or I will not vote at all.

Incidentally, speaking of Africa's politics, I'm reading Keith Richburg's Out of America at the moment. Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/113393.Out_of_America

Very refreshing indeed to see a black man tell it like it is. You can't very well accuse him of racism! He mercilessly asks all those uncomfortable questions, e.g. why exactly are Asian countries with a recent history of brutal colonialism and civil war, such as Korea and Vietnam, doing so much better than Africa? Why is it that you can criticize almost any government for almost anything, but the moment you criticize an African country you're suddenly a racist and neocolonialist? Why is that black American leaders, of all people, would share stages with some of the worst human rights violators in history, and wax lyrical about how great they are?

Well, I'm not done yet, but thus far a very interesting read.
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3128



« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2019, 14:40:02 PM »

The ZACP has a devious plan to keep parliament in check.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  

 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Page created in 0.666 seconds with 24 sceptic queries.
Google visited last this page May 24, 2019, 06:47:50 AM
Privacy Policy