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Christianity

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BERNARD
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« on: September 14, 2009, 11:48:34 AM »

 Huh?
BERNARD: I must tell you how disapointed I am in all you so called christians. It just goes sto show that all you so called GOD people are the same. Maybe it is because HE is the same and prefer certain people above thge rest. That is why I have decided to cut HIM and all christians out of my life.
Am I wrong to feel this way?
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cyghost
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2009, 12:42:57 PM »

How do you cut all xtians from your life? They are all around us.

I guess it depends on why you feel this way. If it is, as you say, that HE chooses only certain people, you may be doing it wrong.

You can do as I do and just accept that HE doesn't exist, HIS followers do, and one has to interact with all sorts all the time. No skin of anyone's teeth.
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2009, 20:03:51 PM »

They are great for arguments though...  Tongue
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2009, 20:42:29 PM »

Hiya Bernie. Most of the time religious folks are just people like you and me. It's when they get all holier-than-thou and more-saved-than-thee that they're a right royal pain in the butt. Only some of them get that way much more often than the others. Avoid those.

Friendship's the decider though, but I'm no friend of any god.
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BERNARD
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 06:41:45 AM »

 Angry
Ja belief me lately I dont belief in anything anymore. What a waste of time it was all these years that I did believe. It was with a shock and a great one that I realised what a fool I've been
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 07:26:45 AM »

Angry
Ja belief me lately I dont belief in anything anymore. What a waste of time it was all these years that I did believe. It was with a shock and a great one that I realised what a fool I've been
Rags to riches stories bring tears to my eyes. Well done Bernard!
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 09:07:08 AM »

Well done Bernard!!!  Not many people are able to see what Billions
wish to ignore Wink
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 21:41:21 PM »

Bernard, your life has just begun. Enjoy.
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BERNARD
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 07:14:25 AM »

Good day

   
I planned on going to next years mighty man camp with Angus Buchan I am very curious. Maybe Angus Buchan is GOD. Why else will there be so many men going? Or maybe it is one large gay party.
 
Regards
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cyghost
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 07:40:58 AM »

That would be a waste of precious time.
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Watookal
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 08:44:43 AM »

Angus buchan would be cool if he included <a href=http://skepdic.com/firewalk.html > firewalking [/url]
That would show those fakirs a thing or two....
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 10:16:48 AM »

I would sponsor potent Namibian Hardwood Charcoal for next years Mighty men, (not for the braai/sacrifes though) Wink       
I wouldn’t want to miss the face whilst walking/running over those  Grin
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BERNARD
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 10:28:57 AM »

 Cheesy
I WILL PROVIDE THE FUEL AND MATCHES
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 10:40:06 AM »

 Shocked

Noooo I don't wanna fry him,(besides I hate the smell of burnt pork) just want to see his body in motion Roll Eyes

Ok, noooo my charcoal idea wont work, I've just read the rest of the Firewalking article, he's gonna
walk the fire with a crowd cheering gods miracle Lips Sealed
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 11:06:31 AM by Jane of the Jungle » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 11:09:40 AM »

Hey you lot, stop mocking that holy man(dril)! Roll Eyes

If Angus Buchan does decide to start firewalking as a show of how much strength is to be had from faith, he should consider demonstrating it on something like this:
(In case it’s not clear, that’s a steel pour.)

Should he manage to walk the length of the channel without sustaining cauterised stumps for legs, I’ll convert on the spot, no questions asked.  He can even do it in a pair of takkies or velskoens of his choice.

NB: Noseclips and respirators can be supplied on demand for those who don’t like the smell of crackling. Shocked

'Luthon64
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2009, 11:52:27 AM »

Quote
If Angus Buchan does decide to start firewalking as a show of how much strength is to be had from faith, he should consider demonstrating it on something like this:.....(In case it’s not clear, that’s a steel pour.)
Grin Grin Grin LMFAOOO

Cool idea, THAT would be VERY Convincing Wink

But Luthon64 I dont think you would mind much even if he sprint over it "veldskoen en al" Grin

Im afraid the noseclip and respirator kit wont be all I'll need, I'm gonna have to insist on a bharf bagg tooooo Undecided
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 14:53:41 PM by Jane of the Jungle » Logged
BERNARD
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2009, 12:31:12 PM »

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

You know you make me laugh. Thanks I cant remember when last I laughed like this. Must have bee about 90 years ago when I still a child
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2009, 12:51:23 PM »

Quote from: BERNARD
Ja belief me lately I dont belief in anything anymore. What a waste of time it was all these years that I did believe. It was with a shock and a great one that I realised what a fool I've been


Good for you BERNARD! When you get over the anger stage, you'll feel much better because you'll feel FREE.... free of the superstition, free of the mind numbing dumbing down of intelligence, free of other people's silly ideas of how you should live, eat, marry, love, or bring up your children. You're about to go on an awesome journey of discovery; there is so much wonder out there and it doesn't need a god, a fairy, Jesus, Thor, Krishna, Harry Potter or any other imaginary being to be in awe at the incredible splendour of it all. Well, that's how I felt anyway.
There are no more demons. devils or ghosts to fear - life will begin to open up so many new wonders that one lifetime isn't enough to take them all in....enjoy!!

 
Quote from: Mefiante
If Angus Buchan does decide to start firewalking as a show of how much strength is to be had from faith, he should consider demonstrating it on something like this:.....(In case it’s not clear, that’s a steel pour.)

A devious woman after my own heart  Grin , we should line up a few more people to walk behind Oom Angus.....Slimey Ray McCauley, is another one.

mdg
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BERNARD
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2009, 13:03:40 PM »

All I need is Harry potter'ss magic want. O believe me I agree totaly about Ray. That man makes me sick.
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2009, 13:36:35 PM »

On the subject of annoying religious figures.....

Another one is Pastor Theo Wolmarans, I don't whatever happened to him, but he used to be quite popular about 20 years ago. Anyway, he avoided using a lowly barber to cut his hair and instead went to a very well known and expensive  hair stylist at Eastgate to have his hair done, which my sister just happened to work at.
The staff found him insufferable and whenever he had to go to the basin to have his hair washed, they used to perform the same ritual everytime he came in. The person washing his hair would pretend to unscrew his halo and throw it like a frisbee to the next hairwasher in line, and so it went on until it got to the last person in line, who then pretended to hang the halo onto a towel hook.
My sister, who was prone to fits of giggles, used to hide out in the back because she almost used to pee herself when Pastor Wolmarans came in.
He never ever caught on.  Grin

mdg
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2009, 13:43:35 PM »

ghee and they think we've got a screw loose Roll Eyes
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BERNARD
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2009, 14:02:36 PM »

I also use to know a well known pastor. That was caught out doing very nauty stuff. But every time you see him he use to say " DEAR BOTHER OR SISTER NEVER WALK THE HIGHWAY REMEMBER THE NARROW ROAD"
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2009, 16:22:22 PM »

On the subject of annoying religious figures.....

Another one is Pastor Theo Wolmarans, I don't whatever happened to him, but he used to be quite popular about 20 years ago. Anyway, he avoided using a lowly barber to cut his hair and instead went to a very well known and expensive  hair stylist at Eastgate to have his hair done, which my sister just happened to work at.
The staff found him insufferable and whenever he had to go to the basin to have his hair washed, they used to perform the same ritual everytime he came in. The person washing his hair would pretend to unscrew his halo and throw it like a frisbee to the next hairwasher in line, and so it went on until it got to the last person in line, who then pretended to hang the halo onto a towel hook.
My sister, who was prone to fits of giggles, used to hide out in the back because she almost used to pee herself when Pastor Wolmarans came in.
He never ever caught on.  Grin

mdg

LOL I remember the nut job from my youth. He used to deliver sermons with such thought provoking titles as: "Hell is still burning!" - It was like watching really low budget sci-fi.
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2009, 20:37:33 PM »

Angus Buchan and his Mighty Misogynists aren't True Christians™® ((P) & © 325 C.E.*). Just ask the pope. And Ratzi knows 'cos he's got a special line to the Big Mindchanger in the Sky.




*As amended 381, 431, 449, 451, 553, 680-681, 692, 754, 787, 869-870, 879-880, 1123, 1139, 1179, 1215, 1245, 1274, 1311-1312, 1341-1351, 1409, 1414-1418, 1423-1424, 1431-1445, 1512-1514, 1545-1563, 1672, 1870-1960, 1962-1965 C.E. et seq.
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2009, 10:37:16 AM »

Well I think even though many Pastors know (or has an idea) there’s not a Daddy in the sky, they won’t stop their careers because they really do NOT want to trade their Merc’s for an Uno AND they so much enjoy the attention from women!  Women virtually hanging on their lips (or should I say pants)  Wink

They’ve got heaven on Earth   Grin
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« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2009, 12:40:49 PM »

I think the most moving expression of the relief we all feel when we realize that our brainwashing and indoctrination is based upon pure hogwash was this from Robert Green Ingersoll:-

INGERSOLL'S VOW

When I became convinced that the Universe is natural -- that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light, and all the bolts, and bars, and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the world--not even in infinite space. I was free -- free to think, to express my thoughts -- free to live to my own ideal -- free to live for myself and those I loved -- free to use all my faculties, all my senses -- free to spread imagination's wings -- free to investigate, to guess, and dream, and hope -- free to judge and determine for myself -- free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the "inspired" books that savages have produced, and all the barbarous legends of the past -- free from popes and priests -- free from all the "called" and "set apart" -- free from sanctified mistakes and holy lies -- free from the fear of eternal pain -- free from the winged monsters of the night -- free from devils, ghosts, and gods. For the first time I was free. There were no prohibited places in all the realms of thought -- no air, no space, where fancy could not spread her painted wings -- no chains for my limbs -- no lashes for my back -- no fires for my flesh -- no master's frown or threat -- no following another's steps -- no need to bow, or cringe, or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free. I stood erect, and fearlessly, joyously, faced all worlds.

And then my heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heroes, the thinkers who gave their lives for the liberty of hand and brain -- for the freedom of labor and thought -- to those who fell on the fierce fields of war, to those who died in dungeons bound with chains -- to those who proudly mounted scaffold's stairs -- to those whose bones were crushed, whose flesh was scarred and torn -- to those by fire consumed -- to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land, whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then I vowed to grasp the torch that they had held, and hold it high, that light might conquer darkness still.
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2009, 14:03:38 PM »

StOnes if I were in a Sects Church I would have given you a LOUD HaaaaleluYaaaaaa
Right now and sommer ‘n moerse hande klap Grin
(not that I’ve ever been in one, saw enough on Tv to let my hair raise)

Towards the end of reading your post, it gave me goose bumps but it give all Atheists hope for the future!!!

Great Post !!! Wink
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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2009, 21:02:38 PM »

Ah, RG Ingersoll - a man of thought and letters to go with it.
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Johanbr
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« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2009, 16:23:26 PM »

Hallo

I'm new and also sceptical

I must say, I find the animosity towards "Christians" very justifiable when looking at Christians all over the world. I grew up in the 70's and believe the church and other religious groupings have lead more people to ateism than God.

I found my religion and Saviour when I realized that I should not accept anything anybody (even preachers or so called prophets) say until I have investigated through study of God's word before deciding whether it is worth taking note of or not.

God did not create perfect people. He created sinners. People do not believe in God because of their experiences what other people do or say.

My faith is built upon my personal relationship with my Maker. I hope and trust that we will just be able to accept that there are always going to be differences of opinion.

JB
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« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2009, 17:07:36 PM »

God did not create perfect people. He created sinners.

Seems like a pretty rookie mistake right at the start. If God created sinners doesn't that make God sinful? Why is this proposed creator deserving of a relationship with you or me, or anyone else?
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rwenzori
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« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2009, 05:08:25 AM »

God did not create perfect people. He created sinners.

Seems like pretty a rookie mistake right at the start.

Yup - looks like a bit of an "Epic Fail" by god LOL!  Grin
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2009, 11:10:06 AM »


Welcome Johanbr. Smiley

I hope and trust that we will just be able to accept that there are always going to be differences of opinion.

Very true. But remember that a maximum of only one of those competing opinions can be correct. No amount of tolerance or "respect" for each other's opinion will change that fact.

Mintaka
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« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2009, 18:06:34 PM »

I found my religion and Saviour when I realized that I should not accept anything anybody (even preachers or so called prophets) say until I have investigated through study of God's word before deciding whether it is worth taking note of or not.
So then the obvious question is how you know that you can trust your god’s word if you “should not accept anything anybody … [says until you] have investigated…?”  Equally importantly, how do you know that you can trust that it is in fact your god’s word?

Scepticism is, after all, about maintaining a healthy mistrust of any claims that are unsupported by proper evidence, and even more so about claims that for all practical intents are actually unsupportable.

'Luthon64
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« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2009, 20:16:51 PM »

My faith is built upon my personal relationship with my Maker.

LOL mine too! Grin Check my sig.

Thor is still convinced he's real, but I'm working on him. The problem is, whenever we get into a really deep discussion he gets up and shouts: "But my hammer is real!" and proceeds to smash things.

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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2009, 01:13:05 AM »

Welcome Johanbr,

Take a tour on this site, maybe you come across answers for the never ending
questions on your religion!  BTW which god is yours? Who is your maker?

Agdistis or Angdistis?
Ah Puch?
Ahura Mazda?
Alberich?
Allah?
Amaterasu?
An?
Anansi?
Anat?
Andvari?
Anshar?
Anu?
Aphrodite?
Apollo?
Apsu?
Ares?
Artemis?
Asclepius?
Athena?
Athirat?
Athtart?
Atlas?

Let me just get clarity here, you are sceptic, but you still believe god exists?  Would you classify yourself as
a agnostic?  If you still believe god exist .....

One question though:  Why would your god create sinners, if he created humans to his image?  Does that mean you’re hell bound from day one?  A new born baby are an Atheist (non believer)  and would be hell bound if he should die after birth or within a few months!  How can he/she be held accountable for sins in the same way a murderer would be?
Not fair at all, is it, as a matter of fact it doesn't even make sense!


« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 01:34:24 AM by Jane of the Jungle » Logged
BoogieMonster
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« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2009, 11:57:05 AM »

Quote from: Jane of the Jungle
Why would your god create sinners, if he created humans to his image?  Does that mean you’re hell bound from day one?

If God has a list of things a person must not do to make them a "good person":

Don't kill
Don't be jealous
Don't lie
Don't lead into temptation
Don't judge
.... and so on...

Why does God do all those things himself? Is he not a good person?

If you ask me, God is a huge sinner himself. Thus it follows that humans are indeed created in his image.  Grin
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« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2009, 15:39:17 PM »

Wow i have read this entire thread now and find this type of discussion absolutely fascinating. My question remains: whether or not a person believes in whichever god or no god at all - why does it matter?   

Let us assume that life is supposed to be the point of all this, that is what we are here to do - to be alive. And in my view, being alive is not that difficult, because it happens by proxy. In order for your average joe to stop being alive when he chooses, he has to actively engange in an activity that is going to end life. If he does nothing, he will remain alive. That being said - could one argue that the things people believe in (good/evil god/devil right/wrong better/worse etc etc) were made up, invented by man because live, being so easy, became so very boring?

So we all go through our little lives trying to achieve great things or simply trying to get by or trying to change the world around us or trying to end it depending on what floats your boat, but the existance of a god is not in my view dependant on whether or not he/she/it has followers. So whether or not I believe in whichever god or not makes no difference to that hypothetical entity. Similarly, I am not going to alter the way I do things for fear of a wrathful god sitting up on a cloud somewhere watching my every move and waiting for the right time to strike. So whether or not I believe in whichever god or not makes no difference to my life or the things I do.

Funny though, how even in light of this argument, even I cannot stop wondering and arguing about the god/no god issue.   
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« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2009, 16:40:13 PM »

Let us assume that life is supposed to be the point of all this, that is what we are here to do - to be alive.

Why do you assume that there should be a point at all? Wouldn't it make more sense to view life as a fascinating but inevitable consequence of chemistry?

There is no more point to life than there is a point to sodium chloride.

Mintaka
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« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2009, 17:55:00 PM »

Quote
That being said - could one argue that the things people believe in (good/evil god/devil right/wrong better/worse etc etc) were made up, invented by man because live, being so easy, became so very boring?

I would say these things originated out of inherent self interest on the part of living people. If wanton killing results in me not being alive anymore, then my morality will state that killing people is wrong/evil. Hence morality seems to result from self interest. We condemn those things as evil, that we don't want others to do to us. The dead have no input on the subject of morality. Because they're dead. Hence morality necessarily serves the living.
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« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2009, 21:48:52 PM »

My question remains: whether or not a person believes in whichever god or no god at all - why does it matter?   

Because belief effects behaviour. If you believe the creator of the universe is watching you all the time and He either approves of disapproves of what you do, you are bound to act differently. Equally importantly, people who say they know what God wants you to do are more likely to have an effect. Our society could do without this kind of credulity.
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« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2009, 07:39:41 AM »

My question remains: whether or not a person believes in whichever god or no god at all - why does it matter?   

Because belief effects behaviour. If you believe the creator of the universe is watching you all the time and He either approves of disapproves of what you do, you are bound to act differently. Equally importantly, people who say they know what God wants you to do are more likely to have an effect. Our society could do without this kind of credulity.
I agree. Just as an example, if we could, ask the people that died in the buildings and planes on 9/11 whether they think it matters or not?
Why do you assume that there should be a point at all?
This is an excellent point!  Wink
My faith is built upon my personal relationship with my Maker.
I also have a great relationship with my mom and faith doesn't even come into the picture.
until I have investigated through study of God's word before deciding whether it is worth taking note of or not.
'Luthon64 and Jane's points are valid - I would be interested to know how you decided which god to investigate and study and what was the evidence for that? Or maybe explain how you excluded all the others?
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Lelani Stolp
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2009, 15:08:33 PM »

You say that belief affects behaviour. I will not at this time argue with you about that, but merely remind you that many things can affect a persons behaviour - not least of which is choice. People don't do what we do because we believe in fairness and goodness unless we conciously make the choice to be fair, or do good - because it will eventually benefit us as well. There is no such thing as a completely selfless act, and I dont think anybody really believes that the god they believe in needs THEM to survive.

Oh and I dont think the people who died in 9/11 really apply to this line of thought, they are dead... to quote from earlier in this conversation: "The dead have no input on the subject of morality. Because they're dead. Hence morality necessarily serves the living." (really like that, thanks)
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Wandapec
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« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2009, 15:59:52 PM »

Oh and I dont think the people who died in 9/11 really apply to this line of thought, they are dead... to quote from earlier in this conversation: "The dead have no input on the subject of morality. Because they're dead. Hence morality necessarily serves the living." (really like that, thanks)
My point was that these fellows behaved the way they did because the houri's were just too tempting.  Wink The alternative, to my missed point, would be to ask the loved ones of the people that died, whether or not it matters. Understandably, time will heal a lot of wounds but given a choice I think that many of the children etc. would have loved to have grown up with and got to know their mom's or dad's.

So the dead may not have any input on the subject of morality once they are dead, but their actions while they were living do tell you something, don't they?
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Peter Grant
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« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2009, 19:45:49 PM »

You say that belief affects behaviour. I will not at this time argue with you about that, but merely remind you that many things can affect a persons behaviour - not least of which is choice.

Please define your use of the word choice. The kind I'm familiar with is based on beliefs one holds about reality. Without these beliefs one would hardly be choosing, more like guessing.

People don't do what we do because we believe in fairness and goodness unless we conciously make the choice to be fair, or do good - because it will eventually benefit us as well.

I don't really think so, I find myself being nice just because I find it enjoyable and often easier.

There is no such thing as a completely selfless act,

Why do you say this? I can think if many examples of heroic acts people have performed at great risk to themselves.

and I dont think anybody really believes that the god they believe in needs THEM to survive.

No, but they don't really believe they can be killed either, just tortured or rewarded eternally.
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Irreverend
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« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2009, 21:19:50 PM »

My question remains: whether or not a person believes in whichever god or no god at all - why does it matter?
Do you think people are happy believing anything as long as it keeps them happy? If you tell someone their beliefs are dodgy, they'll jump up to defend them as being true. What they won't do is say "Well, this belief makes me feel good". So most people have a basic understanding that truth is very important for its own sake. That's one good reason why it matters.

Another one is summed up in the words of Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". Sociopaths and psychopaths are not the human norm. That's another good reason that it matters. Who wants to be an unthinking slave to belief?
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2009, 20:07:08 PM »

Wow i have read this entire thread now and find this type of discussion absolutely fascinating. My question remains: whether or not a person believes in whichever god or no god at all - why does it matter?  

I am with Irreverend on this.

All or most of us wont have a problem with a 5 yrs old who believe the Tooth Fairy exists, and allow them to live in their “wonder world” for time being.  If they however turn 15 and still believes in it, would it be fair from us to allow it, even though we know there is no such thing or no evidence of it?  Where do we draw the line then?  
Do we apply the rules of rationality when it comes to Santa and the Tooth Fairy but not on religion and approve of our children growing up irrational or delusional, because this was what our forefathers and their forefathers believed?  In the end it does matter because we are where we are today, because of ignorance!
So it does matter to me, but that is only my opinion Smiley
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2009, 16:12:45 PM »

I have to agree. Does it matter? If it affects other people it matters.

It resists expanding our understanding of the universe:
The Americans are having a row over teaching of evolution in schools.
There's a whole museum built to illustrate the "truth" of creationism... people living with dinosaurs, etc.
Stem-cell research...
The shape of the earth....

They like to force their ideas on others. Just witness the debate over religion in SA state schools.

It causes violence and hatred:
See most of the globe. But lets name Israel as an example, and Ireland.

Even on a personal level it limits people into unhappy lives:
Wanna get divorced? We don't think so... Oh, and about having that abortion... or same sex marriage... or living together...

The ideas in their heads may seem harmless. But the effect of those ideas are felt by the entire human race. Whether you agree with them or not. And the sad fact is, they will pass those ideas on to their children. Thus the idea is not just limited to their own head. They infect the heads of their offspring too.
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