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Definition

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Lilli
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Lelani Stolp
« on: May 07, 2010, 09:21:46 AM »

So my housemate can be classified as very cool guy in my opinion, though I am fairly sure we would not always have gotten on well... he used to be a dominie at some happy clappy church group thingy and be all on the rollercoaster for jesus and what-not. Now, though he still believes in god and all those good things, he has left the church completely and preaches freedom of thought and that questioning is good and all those good things. But he does have a lot of knowledge from his bible-study days that I find quite interesting sometimes.

Last night, we were debating the definition of atheism. I think he got it wrong. but he said that atheism is a ridiculous religion because you can't believe that you don't believe in something. blah - old argument and a silly one if you ask me. He then asked me that if someone were to provide me with physical evidence of some god-like entity, or if that god-like entity were to present itsself to me and I can see with my own eyes, would I still tell him that I don't believe in any god? My answer: I do not believe in any god now because I have no evidence to suggest that I should, and I have overwhelming evidence to suggest that believing in god is as fruitful as believing in santa claus. If presented with evidence to the contrary, I will, of course, reconsider my position based on the evidence then at hand.

He said that this made me a hard-core agnostic, not an atheist. Argh.

So, any thoughts on definitions of beliefs?
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 09:28:18 AM »

He said that this made me a hard-core agnostic, not an atheist. Argh.
So, any thoughts on definitions of beliefs?

Does it also mean, that he’s a hard-core agnostic of Santa then?
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Lilli
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Lelani Stolp
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 09:38:16 AM »

Does it also mean, that he’s a hard-core agnostic of Santa then?

Haha  Grin No, I think it is pretty easy to prove that there is no 500 year old fat man in a red suit who lives in the North Pole with his reindeer and his elves and delivers presents to good children world wide on a certain night of the year. Its just not possible Whereas in my opinion it is possible that some supreme god-like being exists somewhere, I just don't have any reason to believe that he/she/it does.
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GCG
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 09:48:33 AM »

i kinda dont like going the atheist route.  i'd rather refer to myself as a non-theist or anti-theist, coz  im anti organised religion.  that doesnt mean that i have my own spirituality.  or set of universal beliefs.  what the hell ever they are.

this thing of atheism being a religion, is so fucking stupid, i want to grab them by the throat.
how the hell do they come to  conclusion that, a non-belief system, is a belief system?
surely, to have a faith, one must believe in some form of something that is superior in power to yourself, and has some kind of control over life and the world, and whom you can appeal to in order to make your life better.
how is a belief in nothing, a faith?

or maybe, they are so scared of the idea that, maybe, there isnt anything out there, that they go into denail mode, that even if you believe in nothing, you still believe in something.
if that's the case, i will say, that i believe in science.
i wonder, in their eyes, how do i plan to pray and praise something that doesnt exist, since i dont believe in it anyways?

it makes me stupid with anger.
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cyghost
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 09:52:25 AM »

I am an agnostic atheist.

Atheist because I lack the believe in any God(s). Agnostic because I do not claim to know that God(s) do not exist.
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 09:55:33 AM »

So if you guys are travelling in the North pole and see a Reindeer in the road and around the next corner maybe a slay, would that be enough evidence for him to believe that Santa might exist?  Because that is exactly the kinda circumstantial evidence he (as believer) would offer to you and expect you to accept as proof!  

I think if we understand how beliefs are formed and put our fears aside, we can move to the next level and question!

Quote
How beliefs are formed
Psychologists study belief formation and the relationship between beliefs and actions. Beliefs form in a variety of ways.
•   We tend to internalize the beliefs of the people around us during childhood. Albert Einstein is often quoted as having said that "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." Political beliefs depend most strongly on the political beliefs most common in the community where we live. Most individuals believe the religion they were taught in childhood.
•   People may adopt the beliefs of a charismatic leader, even if those beliefs fly in the face of all previous beliefs, and produce actions that are clearly not in their own self-interest. Is belief voluntary? Rational individuals need to reconcile their direct reality with any said belief; therefore, if belief is not present or possible, it reflects the fact that contradictions were necessarily overcome using cognitive dissonance.
•   The primary thrust of the advertising industry is that repetition forms beliefs, as do associations of beliefs with images of sex, love, and other strong positive emotions.
•   Physical trauma, especially to the head, can radically alter a person's beliefs.
However, even educated people, well aware of the process by which beliefs form, still strongly cling to their beliefs, and act on those beliefs even against their own self-interest.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 11:07:36 AM »

I am a hardcore atheist. The word a-theist refers to non-belief in Theos - the Judeo/Christian deity called "God" or "the One God". I like the way Richard Dawkins put it, "People have believed in, and later rejected, 1000s of gods. We have just taken it one God further." I have gathered, in my life, enough evidence to prove to myself that this God does not exist. I am certain. If a Heavenly Being popped up in front of me in a vision I would check what I ate that morning - it's just not possible IMO.

One of my favourite quotes: "Calling atheism a kind of religion is like calling not-stamp-collecting a kind of hobby."
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 11:12:36 AM »

i'd rather refer to myself as a non-theist or anti-theist,
Non-theist is fine but anti-theist means you believe in God but you are now against Him. From your posts, GCG, I don't think it's likely that you believe in Sky-daddy.
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mdg
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 11:29:15 AM »

Quote from: StevoMuso
Non-theist is fine but anti-theist means you believe in God but you are now against Him. From your posts, GCG, I don't think it's likely that you believe in Sky-daddy.


Not necessarily, Steve. I would say I'm an atheist and an antitheist (nontheist is also fine). I wouldn't say that being an anti theist implies that you believe in god. I would go for Christopher Hitchens' interpretation of antitheism...

 Christopher Hitchens writes:
Quote
"I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful."

mdg
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 11:56:59 AM »

Quote from: StevoMuso
Non-theist is fine but anti-theist means you believe in God but you are now against Him. From your posts, GCG, I don't think it's likely that you believe in Sky-daddy.
Not necessarily, Steve. I would say I'm an atheist and an antitheist (nontheist is also fine). I wouldn't say that being an anti theist implies that you believe in god. I would go for Christopher Hitchens' interpretation of antitheism...

 Christopher Hitchens writes:
Quote
"I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful."
mdg
Fair enough. I don't have enough knowledge to argue with Hitchens. It's just that, to my mind, "anti" means "against" and my interpretation of anti-theist is "one who is against Theos" but I guess it's a matter of personal interpretation. So, I stand corrected, thanks.

Perhaps "atheist who is anti-theism" would be more easily understood.  Huh?
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GCG
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 11:57:19 AM »

i concurr with mdg.  i very much have no time for any woo-woo ness.
i dont believe in any hocus pocus spirit in the sky bollucks.
i do, however, appreceate and love the culture around some religions, ie hinuism and buddhism, simply because its a thing of beauty and grace, and eventhough the priest's prayers dont go anywhere, i still have a feel-good moment when the swawi whacks me over the head with a peacock feather.
i get equally excited when im in the pits at kyalami getting deafened with the roar of bikes.  doesnt mean i believe in the big engine in the sky though.

i think us skeptics latch onto the atheist lable, coz the xtians and public in general, have some inkling what that entails, even if its a bit misguided.
if we had to get technical, they would just see a gap to convert you, and i dont have the energy to fend of the woo-woos.
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cyghost
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 12:56:01 PM »

Theos is merely the Greek word for God. A theist is someone who believes in God(s). An atheist is someone who lacks a believe in God(s).

Anti-theist is meant to mean against theism but the impression I get from the word is that you are against theists, which I am not. I am anti-theism, or against the believe in God(s) because I think it does more harm than good. So when I speak about it, I use "anti-theism" but others use anti-theist in this same sense.

It doesn't matter whether you label yourself an atheist or not, if you do not believe in gods, you are one.
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GCG
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 13:18:19 PM »

God pimper    
A tight ass who considers himself a paragon of moral virtue and is offended by others that engage in behavior such as smoking,drinking,cussing,rap music,tattoos etc.The tight ass considers it his godly duty to police and verbally admonish the godless offenders.
Watch what you say and do cuz here comes the God pimper.

God Squad    
Derisive name given to various religeous organisations that aggressively and proactively campaign for new members to spread their faith.
Don't answer the door. The God Squad is out there.

godbagger    
An individual who uses their religious convictions as justification for idiotic or sociopathic behavior.
Presumably derived from douchebag (cf. godbag).
"Thanks to the dedicated work of godbaggers, it's very difficult for kids to learn about science in Kansas."

Godgasm    
When an individual, usually in a religious
environment, screams and cries out to God during praise or worship.
Lady 1: Oh yes, God! Oh, God! YES! GOD! OOOOH YES!!!
Man: Geez, what IS that lady doing?
Lady 2: Oh, we're in church... so I assume she's just having a godgasm.


Godhater    
"A Term Christians like to use for Atheists who don't see their point of view"
How Exactly does one Hate what One doesn't Believe in ?
Using that Logic, we also hate Garden Gnomes, Pixies, Thor, Zeus and Unicorns.
Atheist - " I think the Christian God is a bunch of Nonsense"
Christian - "You're a Godhater"


godidiot    
A person who uses their silly, false, delusional, religion or theological beliefs and his/her nonexistant, fantasy sky dad called God to justify a moral, legal, or political view. This word created by the raving atheist.

Godlycoddler
Those with what Dan Dennett describes as "belief in belief". Generally, science minded atheists who believe that such figures as Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers, A.C. Grayling, Jerry Coyne etc. would do best to keep quiet about the matter, prefering the accomodationist approach that has been unsuccessful for the last several decades.
A. The godlycoddlers are upset that Dawkins has released another book.
B. Well sure, society wide change always works best when the proponents of change sit down, shut up, and know their place.


Godomite    
A practitioner of the most grave and foul of sins: Godomy... Which is to say, of course, someone who's become so deliriously happy with having god up their own ass that they try to forcibly shove god up your ass as well.

godroach
n. Any person who is a persistent pest in proselytizing their religious beliefs,especially to people who are not interested.
The godroaches are sure thick in the atheist chat room tonight.

and plenty more at http://www.urbandictionary.com/browse.php?character=G&page=191
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GCG
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 13:28:33 PM »

I GOT IT!!!!!!


I'm an Irreligionist
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 15:13:49 PM »

OR simply Religulous Roll Eyes
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