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Gambling.

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BoogieMonster
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« on: April 18, 2011, 14:23:32 PM »

So, as the US is shutting down one online gambling site to the next, I'm stuck in ambivelance wrt gambling, especially online gambling.

1st off, the idea of a prohibition on gambling probably started with religious fervor. But then countries "sanctioni" casino's, etc. For a huge fee, of course, nice source of income that, can't outright ban PROFITS! (for the government, anyway).

So these days it seems (esp in SA), that anyone who has the dosh can get a gambling license. So (what is probably) the reason for a ban on gambling becomes merely a reason to make money, and the ban becomes an extortion exercise by the state.

Then you get online gambling, now (in the USA) people can gamble their money away across state borders TAX FREE. And then the states get upset because they are not getting the gambling tax. Then the federal govt gets involved, and BANS online gambling country-wide, then starts shutting off online gambling sites. Which sounds evil but considder that...

Online shops also don't gather sales tax if they are "out of state" in the USA. And the American government has been scrambling to plug that hole. But who gets the tax? All very confusing. Tax must be payed! Right?

So, what a complicated issue. Should there be tax payable to the state that a gambling house resides in, over and above normal taxes? I mean why single out casino's? Because God doesn't want people to gamble? It's a "sin" tax? Or because it's detrimental to people's lives? In the case of religion, gambling should be illegal, no? Oh right people should be free from religious oppression. But then casino's should be allowed to operate "license" free. But if they are, they'd still need to be charged the "normal" taxes. But then if it goes cross border, shouldn't it be tax-free like any other business currently is? And the same hole should be plugged for both things. but... oh yes gambling is way too lucrative to allow THAT. So BAN all online gambling outright? That is going a bit back in time, no? And then you confound with other factors.... gambling destroys lives. But those people choose to gamble just like an alcoholic chooses to drink. Should they not have that choice? But then they could still just go gamble at their local state-authorized gambling outfit..... so what's the point of banning the online thing, when the only real negative is a country-wide taxation problem that should (?) be solved regardless of casino or not. AND THEN what about overseas gamling outfits. Should the be shut down by the FBI because the USA's citizens CHOOSE to gamble on their sites regardless of local law? And if they too break the (US) law to facilitate? even though they are not IN the usa?

Lots of moral and legal questions here, and I'm confused as hell.
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ingwe
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 15:23:50 PM »

Here consideration is being given to legalising online casino type gambling. The big spoke in the wheel is the proposal to have a withholding tax on winnings over a certain amount similar to that in the USA. AFAIK on line gambling in the USA has been illegal for some time, it has been the policing of these laws that has been their problem. By clamping down on the transfer of the finances to facilitate the play they have more or less closed down a number of online casinos situated mainly in the Caribbean.

 
http://www.moneywebtax.co.za/moneywebtax/view/moneywebtax/en/page1504?oid=56435&sn=Detail&pid=1504


Quote
Cape Town - Treasury hopes to introduce a tax of 15% on winnings from gambling and the lottery  with effect from April 2012, a move that Treasury hopes will discourage excessive gambling and on the other hand help boost revenues.

Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan has proposed that all winnings above R25 000 including pay-outs from the National Lottery be subject to a 15% withholding tax. This means if you win R100 000, 15% of the winnings will be withheld.

"I hope it will assist in discouraging excessive gambling. Despite the obvious merits of this argument, I expect vigorous debate during the Parliamentary process," Gordhan said.

Gordhan said he did not see any impact on investments in casinos due to the tax.

The Minister said the tax proposal on gambling and lottery winnings was in line with practice in a number of other countries, such as the United States, Netherlands and India. The tax proposal comes after Treasury indicated last year that the taxation of gambling and winnings would come under review.
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Mefiante
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 15:57:50 PM »

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Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan has proposed that all winnings above R25 000 including pay-outs from the National Lottery be subject to a 15% withholding tax. This means if you win R100 000, 15% of the winnings will be withheld.
The devious part of me is whispering that if you do win R100,000.00, you should arrange with the casino owner to write it up as four separate wins of R24,500.00 each over a period of a week.  That way, he scores R2,000.00 and you’ll get out R13,000.00 more than you would if your win was shown as a single one.  Uncle Pravin and his greedy minions get nothing.

My point is simply that ill-advised legislation of this kind opens new opportunities to be scaly.

'Luthon64
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ingwe
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2011, 17:14:37 PM »

Quote
Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan has proposed that all winnings above R25 000 including pay-outs from the National Lottery be subject to a 15% withholding tax. This means if you win R100 000, 15% of the winnings will be withheld.
The devious part of me is whispering that if you do win R100,000.00, you should arrange with the casino owner to write it up as four separate wins of R24,500.00 each over a period of a week.  That way, he scores R2,000.00 and you’ll get out R13,000.00 more than you would if your win was shown as a single one.  Uncle Pravin and his greedy minions get nothing.

My point is simply that ill-advised legislation of this kind opens new opportunities to be scaly.

'Luthon64
In the some states in USA the IRS have inspectors or representitives in the casinos they collect the tax on winnings before or as the payout is made. The opposite should also hold true as anyone winning a significant payout will have invested a significant sum of money either at the time of the win or at some other occasion. Should the gambling losses not be written off against the winnings? Casinos after all are placs of negative expectation for the customers and pay significant sums of tax and gaming levies on winnings!!
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 12:13:15 PM »

I think the government should earn its gambling related income the hard way, just like the rest of us. So I suggest they go buy some chips and hit the tables. The clerks can cover black-jack and roulette. Senior officials on slots.

Mintaka
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Mefiante
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 13:10:45 PM »

Nah, those government officials are far too wily to fall for that one.  If anything, they’ll insist on being stakeholders in the casinos, rather than gamblers.  That way the odds will be much more in their favour.

Also, if they were to go in as gamblers, one will get you ten that they’ll be using your tax money anyway. Wink

(All of this as if government officials weren’t already enough of a gamble — and a bad bet — as it is.)

'Luthon64
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