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The Elephant in the Room

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brianvds
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2020, 09:09:21 AM »

Yesterday, I ran into an old acquaintance in the local mall. He tells me he is nowadays involved in farming, and so naturally, I wanted to know whether he doesn't have trouble with organized labour and government policy etc.

Nah, he said. They only employ Malawians. They have no trouble at all with them: they're well educated, intelligent, work hard and never complain. I asked him whether these were legal immigrants; he said no, not as far as he knows. He doesn't care; experience has taught him and all his neighbours that if you want any actual work done, you do not employ South Africans. His workers don't live on the farm itself, so if they ever get deported, he'll simply find new ones. There are plenty of people in this country who want to work. They just aren't South African, which gives a hollow ring to complaints that immigrants "steal jobs." They do jobs that South Africans refuse to do (and the list of jobs gets ever longer - South Africans increasingly refuse to do any work of any kind at all).

Another example of South Africa's current malaise: in my neighbourhood, there is a huge strike going on at the garbage collection company. Yup, in the middle of the worst unemployment crisis in the country's history, there are workers on strike.

The teachers' union doesn't want schools to reopen. Supposedly for safety's sake, but I get the distinct impression they actually just want to extend their current paid holiday indefinitely.

I think collapse has become pretty much inevitable now - the government's economic policy remains the same as it has been for years now: borrow money, steal as much of it as possible, and throw the remaining scraps to the voting cattle so they'll keep on voting "correctly." The people themselves are beginning to experience significant disappointment with the ANC, but instead of voting against the governing party, they now just stay away from the polls, refusing to vote for anyone else ("I don't vote DA because they're going to bring back apartheid."). And thus, the ANC will indeed govern until Jesus returns, with an ever-shrinking fraction of the actual support. That is one thing about democracy: if only three percent of voters vote, but they all vote ANC, then the ANC governs, even though it does not in fact have the support of the majority. But it seems South Africans do not understand democracy.

Well, they're about to get harsh lessons in it. I think it is now pretty much clear that the ANC cannot be reformed, whether Cyril wants to do so or not (and whether he actually really wants to is an open question). He has no further control; the party is rotten to the core, the kleptocracy out of control, and the only morally defensible thing any remaining decent ANC member can do is to resign party membership. There aren't really any other options left.

And thus, I think it is now only a question of time before the government defaults on its loans. Then there will be some sort of collapse, the exact form of which we can't really predict. It will not necessarily be a bad thing, painful as it will be in the short term.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2020, 13:51:46 PM »

But it seems South Africans do not understand democracy.
Evidently so. Democracy is wasted on South Africans, as is our material resources. And yes, we are pretty deep down the toilet.

Might as well get used to the idea of authoritarian capitalism in anticipation of our imminent sinicization.

 
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brianvds
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2020, 14:16:00 PM »

But it seems South Africans do not understand democracy.
Evidently so. Democracy is wasted on South Africans, as is our material resources. And yes, we are pretty deep down the toilet.

Might as well get used to the idea of authoritarian capitalism in anticipation of our imminent sinicization.

 

I'm not sure the Chinese will touch us with a ten-foot pole. I wouldn't.

The best we can hope for is, within an election or two, an Italy-like situation: one ineffectual (and corrupt, but hopefully not quite as corrupt as the ANC) coalition government after the other. South Africans are going to have to learn what the rest of Africa eventually did: the government cannot help you. You help yourself or you stay behind. In Africa, too much government tends to be a vastly bigger problem than too little.

Lots of white South Africans seem to have learned the lesson in the 1990s, and while my white friends complain non-stop about the government, none of them complain about not having access to Covid funds or government contracts or that sort of thing. They have already realized long ago that you simply cannot rely on the government for anything at all, and thus, you should not get yourself in a position of dependence on government.

Large numbers of black South Africans, on the other hand, got themselves into positions of total helplessness and dependence on government handouts. That party, meager as it was, is going to end soon.
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2020, 14:59:53 PM »

Quote from: David Mitchell, Cloud Atlas
My life amounts to no more than one drop in a limitless ocean. Yet what is any ocean, but a multitude of drops?

What I mean to say is: You can't change a million minds if you don't start by changing one.

People in SA probably are not well educated and are perhaps not entirely in contact with the realities of the situation. Maybe a bit derelict in their social duties... But, they're still people who can be informed, convinced, and can change their minds. I just have a hard time imagining who the hell they should support. Perhaps they feel likewise. Given their popularity I have a hard time figuring the death of the ANC won't be an enormous boon for the EFF IF those derelict voters did pitch up at the polls. Be careful what you wish for?

Perhaps SA needs some more conservative leaning "color neutral" party. The DA comes with some baggage. The FF+ comes with a lot of baggage. It's part of why I got excited about the ZACP.... I secretly hope they get their act together and run again, but more effectively.

I do think youtuber "Big Daddy Liberty" is on to something: He's taken to the road recently to travel South Africa's more derelict areas and preach the gospel of family, personal responsibility, capitalism, freedom, etc... to the people who've probably never heard about these things. That's a start. It's more than most white people have ever attempted to do. He's not exactly my cup of tea, but he's not "for me"... if that makes sense.

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brianvds
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2020, 05:08:31 AM »

People in SA probably are not well educated and are perhaps not entirely in contact with the realities of the situation. Maybe a bit derelict in their social duties... But, they're still people who can be informed, convinced, and can change their minds. I just have a hard time imagining who the hell they should support. Perhaps they feel likewise. Given their popularity I have a hard time figuring the death of the ANC won't be an enormous boon for the EFF IF those derelict voters did pitch up at the polls. Be careful what you wish for?

If collapse is inevitable, the EFF will hardly make it worse. What I fear is that SA will not learn until it has learned from harsh experience, just like most of the countries up north had to. They all tried exactly the same authoritarian Marxist experiment, over and over. It failed every single time. None of them learned from their neighbours, but after a few decades of devastation, they learned a great deal, and many of those countries are now fairly stable and have growing economies. It's beginning to look like we'ere going to have to go through the same process. 

Quote
Perhaps SA needs some more conservative leaning "color neutral" party. The DA comes with some baggage. The FF+ comes with a lot of baggage. It's part of why I got excited about the ZACP.... I secretly hope they get their act together and run again, but more effectively.

I think they ran a pretty effective campaign for a small party with almost no funds, but they started way too late. If they run again, I'll probably vote for them again.
Max du Preez has long wished for a new party consisting of the more sane and competent factions of both DA and ANC. That might also work. But I fear much of the problem lies in our entire national culture, not just our political parties.

Quote
I do think youtuber "Big Daddy Liberty" is on to something: He's taken to the road recently to travel South Africa's more derelict areas and preach the gospel of family, personal responsibility, capitalism, freedom, etc... to the people who've probably never heard about these things. That's a start. It's more than most white people have ever attempted to do. He's not exactly my cup of tea, but he's not "for me"... if that makes sense.

Well, good luck to him. :-)
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brianvds
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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2020, 05:45:16 AM »

In other news, I'm sure this will make the investors come break down our doors:

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/money-and-markets/south-africa-misery-index-2020-8
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brianvds
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« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2020, 20:28:21 PM »

Nassim Taleb has some advice for those who keep on harping about colonialism; perhaps the same can be said about apartheid:



"...retrospective acrimony as an industry by itself..." I like that one. :-)
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