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The Locator Locates! (Danie Krugel)

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Mefiante
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« on: September 07, 2006, 17:53:57 PM »

Recently featured on 3rd Degree, it seems that the old adage about one man telling a lie and a hundred repeating it as truth receives another supporting instance here:

Quote
Met die hulp van mnr. Danie Krugel van Bloemfontein se unieke menslike opsporingstoestel is die gebied waar een vrou baie rondbeweeg het en wat sowat 200 m van haar huis in Bochabela is, bepaal.

Dit is gedoen met ’n haarmonster van haar wat in die huishulpkamer van die huis waar sy vir twee weke gewerk het, gevind is.


An earlier article can be found here.

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« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 10:07:05 AM by bluegray V » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 08:55:29 AM »

Danie Krugel and friends with their magnificent person-finding machine made M-Net's Carte Blanche programme on 03 December this year.  Unfortunately, I was unable to view the broadcast but a transcript/outline can be read here, and the "IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER" at the bottom is especially revealing.  By all accounts, it sounds much like a carbon copy of the 3rd Degree programme aired late in August this year.  Uncharacteristically, Derek Watts and Ruda Landman were, it seems, each tripping over their own lower lip for fawning instead of doing any actual research or investigation, e.g. a simple Google search for starters.  Suspiciously, no mention was made that Krugel has been peddling his "services" for more than two years, and that such miraculous technology has failed to raise the eyebrows of the FBI or Interpol.

Again, no detailed descriptions and explicit account of the test protocol(s) were given.  Such questions as whether the target had a cell 'phone or not, or whether Krugel and/or his associates had any direct contact at any time with him/her remain unanswered.  However, unlike the 3rd Degree programme, it seems that DNA wasn't mentioned at all this time, only hair cuttings.  The difficulties of extracting DNA from hair are described here (requires M$ Word) and here.  Suddenly dropping "DNA" from their vocabulary - when it was previously used with great frequency and much gay abandon - is itself suspicious.

At the time of the 3rd Degree programme about Krugel, I wrote the producers thus (dated 23 August 2006):
Quote
Greetings **********,

Thank you for a most interesting "3rd Degree" edition of 22 August 2006, in which was discussed and demonstrated Mr Danie Krugel's technology for locating a person, given a DNA sample of that person.

If Mr Krugel's invention does indeed work as claimed by him and others -- that is, a missing person can be located fairly accurately using only a DNA sample of the person and Mr Krugel's contraption -- then it is quite clear that Mr Krugel has discovered a tool of profound and exceptional value.

It is understandable that Mr Krugel does not wish to disclose the inner working principles of his device, and that this will evoke the scepticism of the scientific community since Mr Krugel's claims seem to violate well-established laws of nature to the extent that they appear to be paranormal.

There is an option open to Mr Krugel for validating his claims without requiring him to divulge his secrets or to expend large sums of money.  In fact, such successful validation could earn him US $1,000,000.- from the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF).  Please refer to http://www.randi.org/research/index.html for more information.

Please note that there is no requirement for Mr Krugel to travel to the USA to accept the JREF's open challenge, since a mutually agreed-to independent third party in South Africa can undertake the testing.  Moreover, Mr Krugel would merely need to demonstrate that his method works to a negotiated and mutually agreeable test protocol.  The necessary arrangements can be accomplished via e-mail, snail mail or even telephone, if need be.

It is very important also to note that even if Mr Krugel's method is entirely dependent on natural forces, he is still eligible, based on the nature of his claimed ability, for the challenge and the prize money if he passes the test, and he is free to use the prize money as he wishes, e.g. to further refine and develop his method, or to donate to a charity, etc.

I think Mr Krugel's chances of winning the prize are excellent, and it would certainly draw much-needed attention to South Africa's scientific and technological expertise.  I ask, therefore, that you please inform Mr Krugel accordingly, or alternatively facilitate contact between he and I, whichever is the more convenient for you.

Thank you kindly for your efforts in this regard.

**********


A delightful measure of sanity on this issue can be found here and here.  Some public debate, mostly suspicious of Krugel's claims, in Germany of all places can be found here for those who read German.

So, if any of Danie Krugel's friends, or perhaps he himself, read this, we eagerly await the time when he will demonstrate unequivocally that his method actually works.  The testimonials of hundreds or thousands of satisfied customers are not adequate, except for snake oil salesmen.

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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2006, 09:19:09 AM »

Thanks for the post. I'll be sure to point anyone interested in Danie Krugel' "locator" here.

I stopped watching Carte Blanche a long time ago. It always amazes me how little research the reporters on these programs actually do. 3rd Degree is even worse. But then, they are only reporters.

And thanks for the link to Midweek Cuckoo. Some good reading there.
"Comments may contain nuts" Cheesy
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 09:29:58 AM by bluegray V » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2006, 10:27:15 AM »

Thanks for leading me to this forum!

What I don't understand about Danie's racket is this: his accomplice Leon Rossouw has a method for finding people who are missing, which uses existing technology. He is a licensed PI who has been instrumental in tracking down missing people and criminals on the run, using their cellphones. What on earth does he stand to gain by masking this fact with a woo-woo box?

I would like to think that if Danie and Leon are hoping to profit from this little stunt, that they will be sorely surprised when they discover that most companies who can afford to pay them for their 'device' will expect it to actually work, and for them to actually divulge the method by which it works, before they fork over any cold, hard cash. Since neither of those conditions can be met, what on earth do these two think they are going to gain with this charade? Especially considering that they've been at it for over two years, and aren't exactly rolling around in a pile of money.
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2006, 11:07:56 AM »

Hiya moonflake - welcome to the forum, which needs more members such as yourself.

This is pure speculation on my part, but perhaps Krugel is happy to forgo widespread fame and fortune in favour of duping little old ladies and airheads for a low grade but steady stream of income, much like reflexologists, aromatherapists, tarot and palm readers, dowsers, and the like do.  If he was suddenly exposed as a huckster, that income stream would dry up (though perhaps not completely: a telling feature of gullibility is that it is irrepressible, so believers will continue to assert Krugel's authenticity).  An interesting question in this context is Krugel's actual success rates, bearing in mind that newspapers and other media vigorously pounce on successes but ignore the failures.

Still, I think that programmes such as 3rd Degree and Carte Blanche exhibit some social irresponsibility by presenting a credulous take on this kind of thing without a thorough and diligent follow-up.  As always, sensationalism overrides good sense.

Further forum discussions of the topic can be foundThe reader will note that many of the assessments are sceptical, but - inevitably - such concepts as quantum entanglement and zero-point energy are invoked with conviction, authority, a hushed voice and a waggling forefinger by those least qualified to do so.

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« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 11:16:41 AM by Anacoluthon64 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 18:23:47 PM »

Incredible! I just received this response to my original email to Carte Blanche suggesting they do a more skeptical follow up of Danie's device:

Quote
Thank you for your input. We are planning to broadcast a follow-up programme on Danie Krugel's invention towards the end of January. Hope you will be watching.

I can only hope that they'll do it right this time. I sent a long response with all the relevant links to various online discussions that have been going on regarding Danie's device, including this one and the JREF. Stay tuned!
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 09:27:15 AM »

That's good news. Please keep us updated on any new developments Wink
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2007, 17:08:06 PM »

Danie Krugel has had dealings with occult practitioners in the past?  Say it's not so!
Quote
Mnre. Danie Krugel, wat nou by 'n tersiêre instelling in die stad werk, en De Beer het onderskeidelik 12 en 13 jaar diens in die polisiemag waar hulle veral met okkulte bedrywighede doenig was.

(Translation: "Mssrs. Danie Krugel, who now works at a tertiary institution in the city, and De Beer have respectively 12 and 13 years' service in the police force where they were occupied especially with occult goings-on.")

The linked-to report deals with the supposed "moral decay" of students and how a return to god and christian values will heal "this sick world" (author's emphasis).  The prevalence and growth of satanism, an occult practice, features heavily, and Krugel is reported to be involved part-time with "Auksano," an organisation that claims to provide a "multi-professional" support structure for children and adults caught up in satanism and other "destructive subcultures."  Krugel became involved after being "gripped by the human suffering," in the main presumably that resulting from satanic doings.  The group also promotes the idea that some of Bloemfontein's doctors, lawyers, police- and businessmen are in the upper echelons of the more important satanic groups in the city.

How convenient a conspiracy.

Could it be that both Krugel's altruism and his science have hair, and yet he has trouble locating them?

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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 11:07:27 AM »

More forum discussions on Supersleuth Danie Krugel and his transcendent tracking technology here (post #33 onwards) and here.

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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 15:18:46 PM »

Come on Carte Blanche, we are waiting for the follow up.

Moonflake have you heard anything new in regards to when they will have the follow up?
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 15:53:26 PM »

They haven't said anything and there's no indication on their site. If they haven't done anything by the end of this month I'll follow up with them again.
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2007, 13:32:37 PM »

Danie Krugel appears to have become involved in the Sheldean Human case.  Sheldean is a seven year old girl whose whereabouts still remain unknown since she went missing from her Pretoria Gardens home on Sunday, February 18 this year.  The linked-to site permits comments by interested parties, and following is the chronological succession of comments relevant to Krugel's involvement.

Quote
Johan K   Feb-20-2007 20:24:42
Quote
I do not know is this will be helpful. On 3 December 2006 there was a story on Carte Blanche about a man, Danie Krugel, former police superintendent and current Director of Health and Safety at the Central University of Technology of the Free State, who claims to be able to find missing people through science. The link to the story is http://www.carteblanche.co.za/Display/Display.asp?Id=3233. There is also a contact person on the website. This is a private investigator by the name of Leon Rossouw. His telephone number is 083 410 0900. Maybe, just maybe they can find this little miracle before it is too late.



heather w  Feb-21-2007 08:33:07
Quote
Johan, you mentioned Dane Krugel who was featured on Carte Blanche in December. I phoned the number given for the P.I. and spoke to him 5 minutes ago. Danie was in hospital and came out yesterday He has been in contact with the family and they are trying to see if they can help. In the meantime, if everyone will keep praying to our compassionate Father that she will be found unharmed and also for the family to have comfort.



Mirna B  Feb-21-2007 09:00:28
Quote
I think Danie Krugel is a very good option. I stay in Bloemfontein and worked at CUT before and know that Danie had quite a few successes. Maybe this is the answer. Anything, as long as Sheldean is found!



Liza V  Feb-21-2007 10:27:47
Quote
Hi Desere - how are things with the Danie Krugel and the family?



Eugene R  Feb-21-2007 21:47:12
Quote
Mense

Ek bid dat Sheldean gevind sal word. Iemand het vroeer 'n comment gelos oor die man wat op Carte Blanche was wat mense met wetenskap opspoor. Weet enige iemand hoe ons die man in die hande kan kry om te help? Ons MOET haar BINNEKORT kry!

As iemand weet waar om Danie Krugel in die hande te kry, doen so asb! Ek glo dat elke liewe manier om haar nou op te spoor probeer moet word. Aan almal wat help soek, ons dink aan julle en moenie moed opgee nie!


CONTINUED in EPISODE II ...

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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2007, 13:33:47 PM »

EPISODE II

Quote
Liesl M  Feb-21-2007 22:11:27
Quote
Eugene, there where some comments much earlier on about Danie Krugel, not 100% sure but I think someone did call him.

My husband went missing four months ago and it took two weeks to find him - they where weeks of unbelievable anguish. I spent every waking (and supposedly sleeping) moment looking for him. Don't judge Sheldean's mom to harshly Melandie, what she is going through is indiscribable and beyond comprehension. I received so many phone calls and offers of help and that's what kept me going and at times drove me mad!
From this mom to Sheldean's mom, you won't be able to be strong, all you will want to do is remove yourself from this nightmare, but you need to know that we are all here thinking of you and your family and Sheldean and collectively trying to make sure she gets back to you unharmed.
Drummond, you sound like a truly driven man, no way will any of us let this lie until she is found!


Kotie L  Feb-22-2007 08:33:40
Quote
Mense, ek wonder net, kan ons nie daardie man kry wat iemand kan op spoor met 'n haar nie - onthou julle - die een wat op Carte Blanche was? As daar 'n fooi is vir sy dienste is ek bereid om by te dra.


Jacques N  Feb-22-2007 09:27:39
Quote
Heather, you mentioned earlier that you had made contact with the private investigator in connection with teh assistance that Danie Krugel could provide. Have you spoken to him ever since? If not, could you please follow up and keep us informed as to the progress they have made?

Thank you.


Michelle S  Feb-23-2007 13:24:07
Quote
Can anyone recall an episode on Carte Blanche last year. A man (I think he is a Private investigator I speak under correction as my memory is a bit rusty) designed a human tracking device where all is needed of the missing person is a strand of hair. Using this device (and the missing person's DNA) they are able to track the person down. Perhaps we should try and get hold of this device and some of Sheldean's hair. We are all so desperate to find this little girl and we should try anything to get her back!


Jacques N  Feb-23-2007 13:36:43
Quote
Michelle, a number of us have already proposed that they contact this guy, Danie Krugel. One of the members, Heather, also indicated that she had spoken to the private investigator and that she had been informed that Danie had made contact with the family to assist. I have also requested Heather to follow up with this PI, but she hasn't responded as yet. I am sure this man will be able to assist.

CONTINUED in EPISODE III ...

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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2007, 13:34:39 PM »

EPISODE III

Quote
Louise B  Feb-23-2007 13:37:32
Quote
Michelle - yes I recall the programme on Carte Blanche - I think it only works in a certain radius for e.g. 10 km. I've been onto the Carte Blanche website but can't find the article. I think it's an EXCELLENT idea if the police can get hold of the man that invented the device and ask for his help.

Mecilla  Feb-23-2007 13:38:09
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Michelle...I remeber that episode of Carte Blanche! What a brilliant idea. Maybe we should try get hold of the CB team and find out if they are allowed to give out that guys details?!


JM v  Feb-23-2007 13:40:42
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Danie already involved


Marisa H  Feb-26-2007 23:49:23
Quote
Hi Sandie,
Welkom hier by ons. Ek is net so ongelukkig, want dit voel asof alles nou begin afneem. Laasweek was die helikopters nog volop in die lug. Mense het self soektogte gereel en nou is dit asof daar net verlore hoop in almal se harte is. Ek bly in Schuurmannslaan - 2 strate bo Ernest. As ek nie so bangbroek was nie het ek al by al die lee huise in die omgewing gaan inbreek. Daar is spesifiek 'n ou huis teen die berg... langs die hoerskool wat leeg staan...Ek weet nie of Robert, die siener werklik die vermoeens het om te help nie, maar enige iets moet ons probeer. O ja...'n vragie aan iemand hier...Wat het toe van daardie man (Danie dink ek something) wat die mense kan opspoor geword. Onthou julle...die ou wat op Carte Blanche was, wat sy dienste verniet aan die familie gebied het. Wat het van hom geword???


Liezl B  Feb-27-2007 13:19:01
Quote
why don't you try that guy that was on Carte Blance that can do a tracing with Sheldeans hair. On Carte Blanche it looked so accurate.


Pieter E  Feb-27-2007 16:29:48
Quote
Jessica & Veronica

as far as i know Danie (the inventor) is involved but has some problems as most of the people in the house used the same brush and therefore it is difficult to get the correct hair. (that is what I heard it maybe incorrect)

CONTINUED in EPISODE IV ...

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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2007, 13:35:55 PM »

EPISODE IV

Quote
Carel R  Feb-28-2007 15:33:25
Quote
Hi Almal

Ek moet sê julle doen great werk.

Onthou julle hoe julle verlede week Robert se oë so toe geslaan het dat hy nou nog nie eers kan lees nie. (Dankie daarvoor)

Wat het geword van die ou wat Carte Blance was en wat moonlik genader sou word. (Miskien het ek die antwoord gemis)

Aangesien daar nou al 'n beloning van R 15000 is soos gesê is, is dit nou nie juis 'n teken vir Omar van vroeg vandag om betrokke te raak nie, of wat dit weereens net gratis publisiteit. (Seker)

Die dames (o, ja en mans) wat die laaste paar dae so hard werk glo en vertrou dit is nie verniet nie. As dit een van my kinders was wat weg was sou ek so goed gevoel het as so baie mense dit met my moes deel en verder my help.

Dit is die feite wat Andre se site gaan maak werk.

Andre, julle het so goeie invloed by die rugby hoekom promote julle nie die site by games nie, terwyl die huidige super 14 aan is nie? (Net 'n vraag)

Aan die ouers van Sheldean STREKTE, kinders is egter God se rykdom aan ons ouers.


nini g  Mar-02-2007 09:25:34
Quote
Morning to all, just want to know if someone had a talk to the guy that was on carte blanche , off finding poeple by just taking a hair. can he help or not.


nini g  Mar-02-2007 09:56:14
Quote
kan iemand asb my 'n antwoord gee, ivm die persoon wat op carte blanche was in desember wat mense kan opspoor deur 'n haar te gebruik. ek meen as dit regtig werk, kan hulle haar mos kry. as iemand net na my terug kan kom asb.. ek weet dit is al vroeer ook genoem, en die man was blykbaar in die hospitaal maar iemand sou met hom in kontak tree. ek het ook 'n nr; Leon Rossouw 083 410 0900. die persoon is net 'n kontak en nie die persoon self nie. ek se probeer, dit kan nie skade doen nie, dalk kan hy mens in 'n rigtig wys waar sy dalk was of moontlik kan wees, probeer dit asb....


nini g  Mar-02-2007 11:07:38
Quote
DESSIE, maybe you can answer my questions, about Danie Krugel that was on Carte Blanche. Finding people by only a hair. please i need some response, i tried to phone Leon myself but his phone go s on to voicemail... just trie the guy, nothing to lose, maybe it will leed to something.... Do you think that the kidnappers also go on to this site and check out all the moves, so they no whats gonna happen when and where, so they wont, let her walk the streets, go to shops. and if its someone the girl must know the parents should have an idee of people, maybe someone thats got something against the family for some reason.


Linette V  Mar-02-2007 11:09:14
Quote
Hi Nini, the guy was contacted

CONCLUDED in EPISODE V ...

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