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BodyTalk & Quantum Quackery

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talker1001
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2008, 20:31:20 PM »

Why do these woo peddlers always end with:
What have you to loose by going for a BodyTalk session? 
They all must have read the same self help book or something...
So let me answer again;
Nothing, except the fee I have to pay to try it, but if you can arrange for me to do it for free, I promise I will truthfully and honestly report what I find.

PS. I love it when quantum physics are mentioned in these "therapies". Its a dead giveaway that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. They think they sound intelligent and mysterious, but the very mention of "quantum" just reveals their deep ignorance of the subject.

A free introductory session can be arranged provided that you will give your honest opinion afterwards. 
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Mefiante
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2008, 22:25:13 PM »

Firstly, I am not here to defend myself or the BodyTalk System.  I do not need to.
Well, when you barge in here, making bold averments about this bunkum, it very much looks like you’re on a promotional mission.  This being a sceptic’s forum, you can expect to be challenged to substantiate your claims, an obligation you now want to dodge.

But I see that nothing I or anyone else wrote here has actually registered, let alone given you pause to think.  Maybe you’ll accord a little more respect to the views of other scientific authorities, but probably not, seeing as you already know that this bumph does work, no matter how infantile the “science” behind it is.

James Oschman’s Energy Medicine: The Scientific Basis.
Deepak Chopra’s “medical” wisdom.
BodyTalk, SCIO and “Energy” Medicine; (Also here.)

Please read the above links if for no other reason than to be better informed on the substance of the scientific objections to all of the stuff you hold so dear.  Then ask yourself which is more likely: that (1) all those mainstream scientists are dumb, or (2) these few lone voices that you rely on are misled, if not deceitful.

'Luthon64
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talker1001
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2008, 08:42:17 AM »

the sceptics also said the world is flat - i wonder if they still hold that view ...
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bluegray
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2008, 08:55:40 AM »

A free introductory session can be arranged provided that you will give your honest opinion afterwards. 
Great! I'm in the Stellenbosch area. PM me the details and I promise I will give you my honest opinion.

the sceptics also said the world is flat - i wonder if they still hold that view ...
I'm sure they did. If you look around you now, the world certainly looks flat. It is an extraordinary claim to say it is round - won't people fall off? But then certain facts came to light that they were unable to ignore. It made it unreasonable to still believe in a flat world. And they were convinced. Because the evidence agreed with the theory.

Now you are making bold statements and we are asking again for you to provide the evidence. Which until now consists mostly of pseudoscience.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 09:11:21 AM by bluegray V » Logged
Mefiante
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2008, 11:36:45 AM »

the sceptics also said the world is flat - i wonder if they still hold that view ...
Actually, at the time that the world was commonly thought to be flat, the reigning sceptical school said that one cannot truly know anything, so they wouldn’t have made any firm claims about the Earth’s geometry – or anything else for that matter.  In contrast, the modern and much more practical version of scientific scepticism requires that one questions the truth of any proposition for which there is scant or no compelling evidence.  The BodyTalk System is very much in that category.  In any case, the wholly unrelated beliefs, even if they are erroneous, of others concerning Earth’s form have no bearing at all on the truth or otherwise of your claims.  As someone who supposedly has legal experience, you should be acutely aware of this issue of relevance.

All of the above is quite apart from, and in addition to, the historical and evidentiary facts about our home planet’s shape that bluegray V has brought to your attention in broad strokes.

'Luthon64
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Mefiante
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2008, 14:14:24 PM »

… I promise I will give you my honest opinion [of a free, introductory BodyTalk session].
Has this happened at all?  If so, what is your opinion or would you rather not publicise it?



Elsewhere, QXCI/SCIO has been labelled “high-tech hocus-pocus” by a physicist.  The irony is that this selfsame physicist is a long-standing member of the homoeopathy and “energy medicine” fraternity.  The rebuttal (or what passes for one) to the “hocus-pocus” charge is so fraught with errors of fact that it is hard not to laugh.  Ultimately, the “rebuttal” is nothing more than a launch pad for something no less quacked called “Inergetix-CoRe” that allegedly works on the same principles but represents a, uhm, quantum leap forward.

This quackery seems positively to invite all manner of charlatanry because the technology is apparently marketed and sold through Quantum Knights, a Canadian organisation that uses multi-level marketing tactics à la Amway.  An installation will cost you upwards of US $10,000.00, which you can (partly) recoup by recruiting lots and lots of other dupes to buy this nonsense from you and sell it on to yet others.

Sheesh, and these people will say that they have their patients’ best interests at heart.

'Luthon64
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bluegray
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2008, 15:35:54 PM »

… I promise I will give you my honest opinion [of a free, introductory BodyTalk session].
Has this happened at all?  If so, what is your opinion or would you rather not publicise it?
No it has not, but that is my fault. I didn't have time when she made the offer and then totally forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me Roll Eyes
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botswanaskeptic
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 11:32:54 AM »

I wrote, somewhat skeptically, about BodyTalk for the Botswana Guardian recently as they have come to Botswana to spread their silliness.  You can see the article here http://botswanaskeptic.blogspot.com/2008/09/talk-to-your-body.html.
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« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2008, 16:00:31 PM »

I wrote, somewhat skeptically, about BodyTalk for the Botswana Guardian recently as they have come to Botswana to spread their silliness.  You can see the article here http://botswanaskeptic.blogspot.com/2008/09/talk-to-your-body.html.


Brilliant article.  I especially liked the part where you said: "The second thing it does is to help you lose weight.  From your wallet."   Grin
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Avumba
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« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2008, 09:56:21 AM »

Greetings all!!

Well, I was on a mission today to find more information about Body Talk. Needless to say that this topic caught my eye as I am a firm believer in getting the most information as I can about something that I would like to do.

Why am I interested in Body Talk? Well, for my own well being. I do not intend to make money out of it and I also dont want to impose it on other people. I only want to use it for myself, if it works. I am thinking of doing one session with a practitioner, to see if it works, and then maybe an introductionory course for self help.

Why do I want to go this alternative route, rather than the normal acceptable route? Well, I like to be in control of my life and my body as far as poccile, and if I can find something that can help me with this, then I will use it. I would rather spend a few minutes by myself and try to fix a cold, pain and mental wellbeing than going to a doctor, pay R150 that will give me 15 minutes of prodding, pills, antibiotics, and a quick day fix for my mental state of unsureness. Dont get me wrong, I do believe in modern medicine and I firmly believe it has its place. But for those yearly colds, IRB symptoms Smiley and overall health, I firmly believe it is in everybodies power to handle that. I just need some tools.

I am stil on a journey of discovery with "alternative medicine". Do i believe it is a moneymaking scheme? Yes, as much as I believe that billions of dollars for medicine are unnecessarily prescribed by doctors. Do i believe that some of these Alternative Medicine Practionioners are doing it only for the money? Offcourse!! Just as I believe that there are many unethical doctors out there that make money out of their profession. Are many gulable people being taken in and fooled by some of these people? Yes!! But just as many people are fooled by doctors telling them they will live longer or get well if they take this pill or treatment.

Why do people go to these practionioners? Maybe because it works for them. Why do you believe in God, or not? Can you prove SCIENTIFICALLY It's existince, or It's Not existince. Probably not, but some do believe in the concept because they can see the positive EFFECT it has on them. Do you have a soul? If you think so, prove it!!

Ok, the point I want to make, is that Alternatice Medicine has its place as it has definately worked for many people. For them, they dont need the scientific proof, they only need the proof of the effect it has on them. For some of you guys, this probably wont be true <G> Which is fine

I will do things, spend money on it, if I know it can be of value to me. Sometimes I spend my money on things that actually have no value for me in the long run, even though I thought it would, but now I can make an informed decision afterwards.

There are many things that we dont understand, and that is a wonderfull experience, in my humble opnion. It makes the excitement of discovery so much more fullfilling. Sometimes we do something that we know, in our hearts, is the right thing to do or not to do, but we cant explain that decision rather than base it on effect.

If that makes me more joyfull in life and and makes me respect myself and my fellow living beings on this planet, then I want to experience it.

So what is my viewpoint?
I am a Skeptical Alternative Medicine User, if that makes sense.

Just my thoughts

s.
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benguela
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2008, 13:34:02 PM »

Ok, the point I want to make, is that Alternatice Medicine has its place as it has definately worked for many people.

Placebo has definitely worked for me. One or two sugar pills and I'm right as rain.  Tongue
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2008, 14:37:42 PM »

Hello Avumba

So glad you came along and I'm sure we'd all love to hear about the outcome of your session.

However I'm a bit worried about the evaluation system that you are going to employ in deciding whether the outcome of such an experiment is  positive or not, and urge you to consider it carefully.

For instance, if a missing finger grows back, I'm sure all will be duly impressed, but I fear something more subjective like "feeling more relaxed afterwards" just won't cut it for most on this forum.

You prolly don't need me to tell you the importance of defining your pass/ fail criteria (your minimum expectations) before conducting the experiment.

Best of luck, and please let us know how it turned out.

Mintaka
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Mefiante
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2009, 11:50:49 AM »

The real damning kicker for EPFX/QXCI/SCIO that its practitioners won’t tell you:
For several years, the QXCI was described an [sic] improved version of the EPFX. During the past few years, however, the device has been marketed mainlyu [sic] under the name EPFX or SCIO. … The device is not legally marketable in the United States as a diagnostic or treatment device, but distributors and importers get around the law by pretending that it is legitimately used as a biofeedback device for stress reduction. (My emphasis.)
In other words, the promoters of EPFX/QXCI/SCIO are not being forthright about their claims when they use the device for diagnostic and/or treatment purposes, which most of them do.  One might be forgiven for thinking that such failure to disclose the full facts is contingent on more than a little self-interest.

'Luthon64
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ingwe
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2009, 20:12:12 PM »

Maybe the James Randi Educational Foundation will help you proove to the world that your claims hold water! You could also win the $1 million
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Mefiante
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« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2009, 22:41:54 PM »

¿Que?  Er, I’m a bit lost.  Whose/which claims are you referring to?  Huh?

'Luthon64
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