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Damn homeopaths are everywhere....

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BoogieMonster
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« on: March 22, 2010, 23:26:30 PM »

Am I wrong?

I had to go see a doctor (MD) today. I ended up sitting accross the only one available (public holiday), at the local Medicross. I frequently use this clinic but had never seen this individual before. As usual my curiousity got the better of me as he was scribbling on his notepad, going out to fetch some papers, etc.

Homeopathy this..... Homeopathy that..... National council of Homeopathic some more ..... I almost felt a cold chill run through me as the reality was dawning.... and I finally spotted (to my relief) the solitary medical degree on the wall: "Bachelor of Science". Phew. But, hold on, is this guy now a homeopath or a (really real) MD? And if he's so into homeopathy as to plaster his whole wall with certificates and accreditations.....

Why is he working for Medicross?

I did a quick mental once-over of the script to make sure it was legit medicine. It was (but was it the correct stuff, I wouldn't know), so I just took it and left. Next time I'm phoning to check who'se on duty before visiting on a public holiday again.

I now am more concerned about our healthcare system than ever.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 00:55:22 AM »

Don't Medicross have some kind of Administrator to write to? Shit, if they are allowing those friggen Homeo quacks to practice there, I will DEFINITELY say something to someone. And this guy had the gall to put certificates on the wall saying he was a homeopath? You are not wrong bro - I'm shocked to the core.
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Faerie
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 08:42:04 AM »

Homeopathy is covered by medical aid. So its not strange to see them at a Medicross. Hell, I'm in HR and we accept "doctor's" letters from traditional healers. I can really rant and rave about this lot, but I doubt its going to make an iota of a difference.  We're in deep dwang, the medical crisis is only starting, its going to get a LOT worse...

Keep in mind that homeopathy is a 6/7 year degreed course at uni, similar to a medical degree, certificates and degrees on the wall need to be scrutinised carefully before you trust your life and limb.
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Reaver
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GroOvy!


« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 10:51:48 AM »

these bastards are every where. And they are sneaking up on us!

I injured my shoulder a while ago, and the pharmacy recommended this trauma gel called "Traumeel". Being all trusting of the science based pharmacist's career, i bought it. About two days later, i realised that they had given me a homeopathic remedy. I was pissed as hell, but it was too late.  WTF!!
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Faerie
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 11:01:36 AM »

these bastards are every where. And they are sneaking up on us!

I injured my shoulder a while ago, and the pharmacy recommended this trauma gel called "Traumeel". Being all trusting of the science based pharmacist's career, i bought it. About two days later, i realised that they had given me a homeopathic remedy. I was pissed as hell, but it was too late.  WTF!!

Did it help?  Evil
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Reaver
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GroOvy!


« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 11:10:57 AM »

these bastards are every where. And they are sneaking up on us!

I injured my shoulder a while ago, and the pharmacy recommended this trauma gel called "Traumeel". Being all trusting of the science based pharmacist's career, i bought it. About two days later, i realised that they had given me a homeopathic remedy. I was pissed as hell, but it was too late.  WTF!!

Did it help?  Evil

Classic placebo effect did! Wink
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Lilli
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Lelani Stolp
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 11:15:06 AM »

We used to use this gel on the horses when they had sore muscles, and a couple of years later, they started marketing the stuff as a homeopathic remedy for humans with sore muscles, joints etc (kinda like deep-heat or whatever, but i cant remember the name) The 'human' stuff even had the exact same ingredients, it was just an infusion of a bunch of herbs, but was seriously double the price!
(I kept using the stuff intended for horses, and it worked really well...some of this 'all-natural' stuff IMHO really does work Undecided)
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Reaver
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GroOvy!


« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 11:30:46 AM »

We used to use this gel on the horses when they had sore muscles, and a couple of years later, they started marketing the stuff as a homeopathic remedy for humans with sore muscles, joints etc (kinda like deep-heat or whatever, but i cant remember the name) The 'human' stuff even had the exact same ingredients, it was just an infusion of a bunch of herbs, but was seriously double the price!
(I kept using the stuff intended for horses, and it worked really well...some of this 'all-natural' stuff IMHO really does work Undecided)

Whenever i hear this "herbal remedies" stuff my "pseudometer" goes on red alert.... surely if it really worked it would have been incorporated into real medicine?
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Mefiante
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2010, 11:36:50 AM »

( ...some of this 'all-natural' stuff IMHO really does work Undecided)
Homoeopathy should not be confused with certain natural remedies.  If the ointment contains easily detectable amounts of the curative agent, then it is, almost by definition, not homoeopathic because one of homoeopathy’s founding principles is that the power of a remedy increases the more it is diluted.

The proportions and quantities of the ointment’s ingredients are no doubt carefully controlled to ensure a consistent product that is not harmful, and it could be argued that the “natural” ends with this process because people have consciously interfered with it.  It is also possible that the terms “natural” and/or “homeopathic” were added to the product’s packaging as a marketing ploy to exploit the all-too-common woo-woo notion that “natural” automatically equals “good and effective.”  Anyone who believes this unconditionally is invited to chew an oleander stalk – they will soon find it effective but not good.

'Luthon64
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 11:45:40 AM »

Of course, one has to point out to the users of "natural" or "herbal" medicine that quite often the side-effects and interactions with other conditions/medications are largely unknown. (Once a clinical study of a substance and it's active ingredients is done, it's no longer natural medicine, it's just medicine).

This is the advantage of modern medicine over "remedies", there's a nice package insert that says: "If you have heart problems don't take this it might kill you", or "If you're on drug X then don't take this one, it leads to Y".

Anything marked "remedy" never has this kind of research and insight behind it, and, IMHO, is akin to playing russian roulette, especially if you have any kind of chronic medical condition.

Woo-woo clansmen will point out that because their remedies are "natural" they don't have side effects.... But then you have the age old example of aspirin. A substance that, upon being produced in a lab, becomes instantly EVIL! and suddenly gains many side effects. Surely if taken in it's natural form it's perfectly safe. or not.
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Reaver
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GroOvy!


« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 11:46:32 AM »

 It is also possible that the terms “natural” and/or “homeopathic” were added to the product’s packaging as a marketing ploy to exploit the all-too-common woo-woo notion that “natural” automatically equals “good and effective.”

This is sad and dangerous in its own right. Something that may actually have some benefit, and it labeled Homeopathic is only going to lead people towards homeopathic remedies for other ailments... It is nothing but unscrupulous marketing by these companies, and they are endangering peoples lives!
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Lilli
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Lelani Stolp
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 12:02:08 PM »

OK, better example maybe - I am severely anemic. The doctors explained to my mother when I was little, that apparently the condition I have is not caused by the wrong diet (not enough iron); not caused by chronic blood loss (I was 6 when I was diagnosed) and therefore not really due to anything they could explain. The reason I have an iron deficiency is because my body, for some reason or another, simply does not absorb the iron it should, no matter what I eat. I then had to go to the doctor on a weekly basis so they could inject me with extra iron, and that prevented me from passing out randomly from fatigue.
I had a very weirdo woo-woo friend in high school who gave me the anemia remedy her mother (SUPER woo-woo) prescribed. It didn't work any better than the injections (although it was less unpleasant than getting stabbed by a needle every week), but it did work (my iron levels went up, and actual really-real-doctor bloodwork proved this, its not just in my head)
I'm not saying the african potato is a cure for anything, I'm just saying that maybe some medicines have not undergone all the trials etc yet, but that does not mean that they wont, one day, and that therefore does not mean that they should be discounted because the woo-woos labelled them before the doctors had a chance to?
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 12:03:06 PM »

I've also picked up that many a time people will use herbal, natural and homeopathic as more or less synonymous, when clearly they are not. Herbal remedies, by virtue of containing ingredients, may very well pack a wallop.


Quote
I'm not saying the african potato is a cure for anything, I'm just saying that maybe some medicines have not undergone all the trials etc yet, but that does not mean that they wont, one day, and that therefore does not mean that they should be discounted because the woo-woos labelled them before the doctors had a chance to?

For sure. I have great faith in the untapped medicinal potential of as yet unexamined plant species myself.

Mintaka
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 12:14:06 PM »

Quote
does not mean that they should be discounted because the woo-woos labelled them before the doctors had a chance to?

My post does infer that, I do understand that natural substances can be effective, and SHOULD be studied (like aspirin and many other drugs we found from natural sources). However what I'm saying is, you could've had any number of unwanted side effects, or long term damage caused, by using something that was untested. With herbal cures and such, you risk taking not just the active substance, but many others with it (a crushed leaf or piece of bark doesn't JUST contain the substance you want), with unknown consequences.

I'll also concede that this even happens with medical cures, that after a time we realise the substance has long-term effects we hadn't anticipated. Of course, our medical researchers then pinpoint the problem and remove/improve the treatment. It's like playing a game of chance and going with the horse that has the best odds of all.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2010, 12:18:09 PM »

It's like playing a game of chance and going with the horse that has the best odds of all.

That would be the horse that had the herbal gel treatment, right? Grin

Mintaka
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