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faith-healing

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Lilli
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Lelani Stolp
« on: September 28, 2010, 11:14:38 AM »

I had an argument last night with my house-mate about this bullshit, and have been surfing the internet all morning looking for convincing evidence. Obviously these white-robed evangelical preachers with the travelling-the-country-speaking-in-tongues-healing-the-sick mumbo jumbo is exactly that - mumbo jumbo, but my housemate claims to have seen with his own eyes a man from Klerksdorp or somewhere getting up out of his wheelchair (where he was confined to as a result of a car accident many years before) and get up and walk. This eye-witness account was experienced back when my housemate was a very religious person, and a pastor for some happy-clappy church in the same town. Follow-up investigation reveals that the dude has subsequently died, but could walk normally to the end of his days. Now I can find lots of 'testimonies' about people who were supposedly 'healed' by a laying on of the hands by some holy preacher man, but I can't find many follow-ups. I will buy that endorphines and mass hysteria brought on by a religious event of that magnitude could cause the illusion that your pain is gone, or whatever, but the effect cannot possibly last. I refuse to entertain fantasies that a 'higher being' listens to the prayers of these freaks and then cures cancer. Thats just ridiculous. But I am surprised at how little conclusive research has been done on the matter.
Any thoughts or contributions ? (or evidence, so I can fully win the argument by proving beyond any doubt that faith healing is physically impossible, and that it has never happened and cannot happen. Sorry, I hate losing, and last night I didn't lose, but I couldn't conclusively prove my point, which is equally annoying)
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Mefiante
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In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται


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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 11:52:00 AM »

You need to beg, steal or borrow a copy of this book.  It’ll go a long way towards significantly diminished faith in faith healers, showing what a bunch of shysters they all too often are, especially the ones who shout the loudest.  You may need to order it from Amazon.  In several cases, these charlatans have made use of paid actors who are part of the “miracles” the “healer” performs in the name of whatever god.  In other cases, genuinely unwell people become so enraptured that they overcome severe physical difficulties and are able to stand or walk without the aid of their crutches or wheelchair.  These stunts often leave them worse off later on when the excitement has worn off.  The real question to ask is why not one of these faith healers (fake healers?) has ever demonstrated the re-growth of an amputated limb.

However, also be prepared for the likelihood that your housemate will rationalise all this away by saying that, yes, maybe many of the faith healers are tricksters but this one is The Real Deal because, after all, s/he’s got a reliable eyewitness account.  And about re-growing limbs?  Expect a, “Oh, but it doesn’t work that way,” to which the correct reply is, “Okay, so how exactly does it work?”

'Luthon64
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Julian
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 19:43:04 PM »

I had this exact argument with my folks. When I threw the "why doesn't God heal amputees" line at them, they told me there was this British evangelist (Smith Wigglesworth) who got a boys foot to grow back. This would have impressed me, but alas there is no evidence to confirm the claim.

Faith healing never occurs under controlled observation. Obviously God doesn't like being closely watched when he performs his miracles  Roll Eyes
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 20:23:27 PM »

The real question to ask is why not one of these faith healers (fake healers?) has ever demonstrated the re-growth of an amputated limb.'Luthon64

DIWTST*

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

Mintaka
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* Damn, I wanted to say that!
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Kosie van Jozi
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2010, 11:53:10 AM »

I have yet to see evidence that this has ever worked.  Obviously (being Afrikaans) I have attended church and I always felt extremely uncomfortable when something like that appears to happen.  I also know that the people that "faint" are pushed over by the priest. <- purely based on my own experience for incase anyone want to think I am speaking for a group of people
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Lilli
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Lelani Stolp
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2010, 12:50:47 PM »

Apparently there is a 'faith-healer' dude who hosts a 'healing service' on Saturdays at his church just outside of Klerksdorp. I am so going to go and check this out for myself - could be a good laugh  Evil
I have yet to see evidence that this has ever worked.  Obviously (being Afrikaans) I have attended church and I always felt extremely uncomfortable when something like that appears to happen.  I also know that the people that "faint" are pushed over by the priest. <- purely based on my own experience for incase anyone want to think I am speaking for a group of people
Yeah stories of people fainting and shaking and so forth makes me uncomfortable too, but I think its more because I am genuinely concerned about those people's physical (and maybe mental) well-being - I have never been exposed to this first hand, however, but as stated above, I intend to.
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