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A not-so-happy day for....

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Faerie
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« on: January 21, 2011, 08:49:30 AM »

for once the headlines speaks the truth - go have a peek at these pics:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/back-page/a-not-so-happy-day-for-1.1014742?image=5

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cyghost
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 08:56:27 AM »

looks quit traumatic - but that may just be me and my biases
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GCG
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 09:09:23 AM »

imagine the poor jewish babies having their foreskins lopped off.  eina.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 09:41:37 AM »

imagine the poor jewish babies having their foreskins lopped off.  eina.
I tried phoning my Rabbi the other day but kept getting cut off.
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GCG
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 09:57:26 AM »

he he he he   Grin
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murraybiscuit
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 10:07:21 AM »

in the parent's eyes this is tantamount to immunisation against mortality of the soul. if that makes any sense.
what i'm saying is that babies will cry over anything which doesn't involve crawling back into the womb or sucking on a tit.
bathtime being no exception.

i can't really see grounds for moral outrage over the physical act of infant baptism here, more than a suggestion to warm the water.
if the issue is over ideology or theology, so be it. the emotive nature of this image doesn't really add much to that debate.

we subject babies to much worse by injecting them against their wills.
you could argue that immunisation can be proven to benefit the baby.
but you'd have to prove that infant baptism inherently harms the baby.
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st0nes
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mark.widdicombe1
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 12:33:25 PM »

He's just pissed because he took a huge breath to blow out that candle, but the pillock with the water put it out before he had a chance.
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GCG
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 13:14:27 PM »

i was christened at 17, and still wanted to scream blue bloody murder
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cyghost
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 14:10:13 PM »

I don't know if there is a moral outrage as such and I can certainly agree that this doesn't do any "real" harm per se.

My primary objection would be that it leads to other bullshit if *any* of this crap is allowed...

"No harm, we just protect his soul by dowsing him in water"

"No real harm, God just want a piece of the boy's penis as token of devotion"

"No immortal harm, we'll just fly into these buildings and God will take care of the souls as he sees fit but we'll get some virgins"

A slippery slope and my objection to real harm done compels me to speak out against baptism and mass and whatever these people do in the name of their religion. I won't stop people from going to church or baptizing their children, but I'll be sure to tell them how absolutely ridiculous they are being.
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murraybiscuit
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 14:34:05 PM »

My primary objection would be that it leads to other bullshit if *any* of this crap is allowed...
/snip

sure. point taken.
i think raising kids is a really hard one.
especially when there's differences of opinion between spouses.
that's going to be my problem  Sad
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cyghost
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2011, 14:40:23 PM »

good luck  Wink


ironically I recently had a baby and my wife, a Korean deist, asks me if we should baptize our son...  Shocked  truly wtf, reason given, Pascal's Wager in so many words.  Roll Eyes LoL

I said no, I'll take his punishment on me and if he wants to be baptized or snipped (she already knew my feelings on that and hasn't even suggested it) or whatever, he can do that at age 18 after years of indoctrination from me in anti-magical thinking  Evil
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Faerie
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2011, 15:13:56 PM »

My primary objection would be that it leads to other bullshit if *any* of this crap is allowed...
/snip

sure. point taken.
i think raising kids is a really hard one.
especially when there's differences of opinion between spouses.
that's going to be my problem  Sad

Eish.... good luck.... when my kids father started with the Sunday school thing, I agreed on condition that they are allowed to go to a different church every week, if he wanted to expose them to the rubbish, then he was damn well going to expose them to ALL of it. They even went to Madrasah for a week. It cured them from religion forever and it only took about 3 months to filter them through just about every conceivable religious institution I could find in the area. It also cured the ex of his stupid ideas on spiritual responsibility.
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GCG
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2011, 15:38:45 PM »

"No real harm, God just want a piece of the boy's penis as token of devotion"

and does the child have a say in this whole schpiel?
if it's a case of devotion, then the kid can have his own dongle lopped off, when he is good and ready to devote his man-bits to god.

in this case, it's rather a case of lopping the kids bits off to show the parent's devotion.
isnt that torture then?

sure, sure, being circumnavigated is supposedly healthy and whatnot, but surely the kid get's to decide what his pecker will look like.
having been exposed to both ends (ahem) of the spectrum, i say, chop the little bugger, but only if, as an adult-ish lad, he can decide so for himself.
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Brian
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2011, 16:31:17 PM »

If I understand the ritual of baptism correctly it has buggerall to do with the baby's soul, but is a re-affirmation by the parents of their devotion to God and a promise before witnesses to bring the little soul up in the bosom of their particular version of the deity and its rigmarole.

Concerning the snip: I was snipped at 3 due to medical issues and it was fucking sore! I can still remember trying to pee and screaming in pain...my earliest childhood recollection! My eldest son, same thing! Then when the next son was born I said bugger this, its more hygienic, easier to clean etc etc (and now we hear it inhibits STD's) so why the bullshit of not snipping? My latest grandson born on Wednesday is not allowed to be snipped although both parents fully support it (there's the so-called psychological issue that the son should look similar to his father in the nether regions as well)....No No No the Dr says. the child must decide when old enough (now its a major issue and painful) but if you're Muslim or Jewish its OK? For F sake...the religious get to do it but we cannot....I totally fucking reject that! I hear that the legislation was pushed through to prohibit this "mutilation' of a baby by vested interests...enough said as I'm not homophobic at all. Angry
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cyghost
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2011, 16:52:10 PM »

<snip - pardon the pun>so why the bullshit of not snipping?
The InterWeb is your friend. Or we can take it to a separate thread, it deserves such really.

Needless to say, not snipped, never had a single problem and the idea that it is somehow *more* hygienic is laughable. Barring a valid medical reason, this barbaric practice needs to stop.
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