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E Toll

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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2013, 16:12:31 PM »

Have you seen the movie?
Why I Won't Pay for Gauteng's eTolls

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Mefiante
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« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2013, 17:46:34 PM »

Rigil, thanks for sharing.  Besides being a rousing call to civil disobedience, that’s a superb summary of the issues at stake and why this imposition should — no, must! — be resisted.

One minor quibble:  I feel they should have added 15 or 20 seconds on why, given an adequate number of protestors, the recommended disobedience will inevitably succeed (basically, because the system absolutely requires that by far the majority, i.e. upward of 90%, of regular users have e-tags, otherwise their whole billing system collapses under its own weight of paper).

ETA:  News just in.  As if more evidence were necessary that they want people to acquire e-tags (or at least register an account, which allows tolls to be directly debited against a bank account), SANRAL warns untagged road users of hefty bills.  Desperation, anyone?

'Luthon64
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 18:12:01 PM by Mefiante, Reason: More heavy-handed tictacs from the guvvamint. » Logged
Mefiante
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2013, 14:54:57 PM »

And the guvvamint baloney continues unchecked.  Now it’s the SA Post Office claiming it can handle up to a million e-toll invoices daily because — get this — it already handles around 450,000 traffic-related mail items monthly.

SAPO’s logic is clearly flawless…

One commenter suggests returning e-toll bills to sender.  Others suggest requesting proof from ETC that you did in fact use the highway at the times and places they claim.  I like both ideas.  They’ll add usefully to the chaos that is surely on its way.

'Luthon64
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brianvds
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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2013, 16:27:49 PM »

One commenter suggests returning e-toll bills to sender.  Others suggest requesting proof from ETC that you did in fact use the highway at the times and places they claim.  I like both ideas.  They’ll add usefully to the chaos that is surely on its way.

With significant noncompliance the system will inevitably collapse completely and utterly. The only question is whether they will manage to sway enough of the public with their threats, and possibly by harshly making an example of a few hapless early victims.
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brianvds
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2013, 16:45:54 PM »

Another view:

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/If-SANRALs-number-place-recognition-systems-are-so-good-then-why-do-we-need-e-tags-20131128

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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2013, 16:55:28 PM »

With significant noncompliance the system will inevitably collapse completely and utterly.

I doubt SANRAL can send out 1m letters a day, thus I doubt this will ever even be a problem for SAPO.
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Mefiante
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« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2013, 17:48:29 PM »

The only question is whether they will manage to sway enough of the public with their threats, and possibly by harshly making an example of a few hapless early victims.
True, but I doubt that SANRAL will succeed.  The groundswell of public opposition is too great.  I expect that they’ll fail (or at least hope so), based on three main reasons.  First, there’s a sense of solidarity on this issue among Gauteng motorists that cuts across many different divides, which is something we’ve never really seen before in SA.  Second, the law is by its nature reactive and slow.  Third, the media will report any related stories because it’s such a contentious issue, keeping it on the boil in people’s mind thereby curtailing apathy.

No doubt there will be a few martyrs for the cause but as recent labour unrest has demonstrated, it’s not in SAns’ nature to allow themselves to be intimidated into compliance.  Plus, there’s ever-increasing discontent over the guvvermint’s habitual accumulation of failed promises.  I think the 2014 elections will throw up a few surprises.

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brianvds
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« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2013, 19:27:52 PM »

First, there’s a sense of solidarity on this issue among Gauteng motorists that cuts across many different divides, which is something we’ve never really seen before in SA. 

Yup, SANRAL may well manage to achieve what 20 years of the ANC's naively patriotic nation building propaganda failed to, namely to unite the country into a single (non-toll paying) nation. :-)
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2013, 19:50:10 PM »

Pity Jesus isn't around anymore. He handled tax collectors by threatening to lodge with them.

Quote
Luke 19
1 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way. 5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.”

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brianvds
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« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2013, 04:40:40 AM »

Pity Jesus isn't around anymore. He handled tax collectors by threatening to lodge with them.

Quote
Luke 19
1 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way. 5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.”

After which he cursed the fig tree for having helped out a tax collector?
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cr1t
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cr1t
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2013, 11:31:23 AM »

First, there’s a sense of solidarity on this issue among Gauteng motorists that cuts across many different divides, which is something we’ve never really seen before in SA. 

Yup, SANRAL may well manage to achieve what 20 years of the ANC's naively patriotic nation building propaganda failed to, namely to unite the country into a single (non-toll paying) nation. :-)


It is certainly changing the way people think of tax and the government. It will be interesting to see who wins in the end.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2013, 12:00:19 PM »

It is certainly changing the way people think of tax and the government. It will be interesting to see who wins in the end.
Definately, but it's more than just interesting. If our Gauteng compatriots fail to obliterate the e-toll madness on their side, there is always a chance that it will eventually roll out to include the armgat provinces too.

Rigil
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brianvds
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« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2013, 05:00:53 AM »

It is certainly changing the way people think of tax and the government. It will be interesting to see who wins in the end.
Definately, but it's more than just interesting. If our Gauteng compatriots fail to obliterate the e-toll madness on their side, there is always a chance that it will eventually roll out to include the armgat provinces too.

Rigil

There is little doubt in my mind that other provinces will follow if the government gets away with it in Gauteng.

As it is, in South Africa people have been complaining for a long time that they have to pay twice for everything: you pay taxes for services like health, education and security, but if you want those services delivered properly you have to pay again to have them delivered by private companies.

Now the government has started to make this system official policy: you pay taxes for the upkeep of road infrastructure, and by governmental decree you also pay a private company to do it. Only a question of time before other services will be similarly privatized, and you'll be obliged by law to take out health insurance (as is the case in America), pay for private security companies etc. etc. In the meantime, you'll still keep right on paying taxes for these services too.

We can only hope that our current crop of politicians will not decide to slaughter the cash cow once it has been milked completely dry...
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brianvds
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« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2013, 05:08:21 AM »

Well, there you have it: it's a done deal:

Highway or byway: Gauteng e-tolls are here

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-02-gauteng-faces-the-facts-e-tolls-are-here

The only hope now is that the system will crash because of non-compliance. That remains to be seen.
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Mefiante
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« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2013, 07:14:54 AM »

Actually, you are paying for the construction and maintenance of public road infrastructure three times: income tax, the fuel levy and now e-tolls.

'Luthon64
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