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Gun control (resurrected)

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Rigil Kent
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« on: October 12, 2015, 16:01:28 PM »

I enjoyed a recent thread that had ostensibly been clobbered during our forum's sabbatical to Cyberia. It was on the merits of stricter gun control. I would like to draw attention to a subsection of a more specialized forum where its members keep tally of incidents relating. I found it an interesting browse...

http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/forumdisplay.php?125-Gun-Free-South-Africa-The-Truth

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Mefiante
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 16:22:41 PM »

I have discovered two marvellous screenshots showing some of the posts of that thread (“Oregon Mass shooting”) which the margin of this forum is too small to contain. Wink

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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 16:31:46 PM »

That doesn't prove anything!  Cheesy
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 17:33:52 PM »

I have discovered two marvellous screenshots showing some of the posts of that thread (“Oregon Mass shooting”) ...

Where? You took them?
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Mefiante
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 18:14:49 PM »

Where? You took them?
Yes, I had two separate sessions open on two different PCs when The Great Grating Crash of 2015 occurred.  I kept those sessions open until the forum got resurrected, only to find that some 30 posts had been consigned to perdition in The Great Grating Silicon Chasm.  Upon discovering that fact, I first tried saving them as HTM and also as MHT files, only to find that doing so merely polled the original URL, giving me the latest version that was missing those ±30 posts.  So I composited the screenshots as long PNGs.  Unfortunately, they’re too big (both width × height and file size) to post as images here.  Our dear admin could do something were he not so scarce.  Even so, any links in those posts obviously won’t work.

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The Vulcan
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2015, 08:47:59 AM »

I still don't know that we got our gun control exactly right, criminals can still get their hands on AK47s and explosives used in cash in transit robberies and and for hijackings they can even pose as cops using real SAPS
 vehicles and uniforms, while some people seeking licensed firearms for hunting or whatever, has to struggle for long periods to get it, but then you see someone loke OP who own multiple licensed high calibre firearms and you really start wondering why some people seem to get differently.

Still, the main thing that gets my goat is in how easy it is to get legal firearms in the US, from what I understand, it's apparently as easy as buying African art and boerewors rolls at the local flea market, expo or fair, it seems just a bit too easy, I mean, when buying legal firearms is as easy as buying milk or cigarettes, you really have to start questioning the thinking of American lawmakers.
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2015, 09:46:44 AM »

but then you see someone loke OP who own multiple licensed high calibre firearms and you really start wondering why some people seem to get differently.

Wanna try that again?

Quote
Still, the main thing that gets my goat is in how easy it is to get legal firearms in the US, from what I understand, it's apparently as easy as buying African art and boerewors rolls at the local flea market, expo or fair, it seems just a bit too easy, I mean, when buying legal firearms is as easy as buying milk or cigarettes, you really have to start questioning the thinking of American lawmakers.

I actually only think it's mildly weird. I can walk into a shop on an idle saturday and buy a nail-gun, a chansaw, a razor-sharp japanese carbon steel knife/katana/tantō, a crossbow and a bag full of arrows, a bag of fertilizer and a couple litres of petrol and the only question I'll be asked at check-out is "Cash or Card?".

I'm really in the camp that says trying to control "weapons" is an utterly and completely futile exercise. Now with the birth of 3D printers it's becoming even more impossible as there are already 3D printed designs online for home-made guns. That's completely uncontrollable, people build 3D printers in their spare time from stuff they got at the hardware store.. One company will even ship you a kit... because shipping gun-making equipment is now much easier and more legal-er and more anonymous than shipping the gun itself.

At what point are you really just arguing about semantics and making guns hard to get for casual users whilst having no impact on a determined user?
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The Vulcan
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 10:21:21 AM »

Haha, that is what happens when you type on a phone Smiley My bad.

Nah I get a lot of you're saying, but these mass shootings in the US has now almost become an institution, I'm not saying there will not be crazy sociopaths wishing to blow shit up, I'm just saying why make it so easy - they don't even need to get imaginative, they just follow a set recipe for infamy: go to your local spar, buy a ton of guns and ammo, go to school and wipe out everyone you blame for your worthless life and instantly become infamous, because you know you'd never have become famous another way...

I mean it's just too ridiculously easy, isn't it? At least make them work a bit harder if they want to become a famous mass murdering sob
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Mefiante
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2015, 10:22:21 AM »

… a bag of fertilizer and a couple litres of petrol…
Pure ammonium nitrate (AN) is no longer freely available for the very reason you intimate.  You’ll only get fertiliser mixes, e.g. 3:3:1, that inhibit the oxidant properties of the AN, making it difficult to mix up a batch of boom-boom.  But perhaps the biggest hurdle is detonating it.

Oh, and diesel works better than petrol due to its higher calorific value.

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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2015, 10:24:39 AM »

… a bag of fertilizer and a couple litres of petrol…
Pure ammonium nitrate (AN) is no longer freely available for the very reason you intimate.  You’ll only get fertiliser mixes, e.g. 3:3:1, that inhibit the oxidant properties of the AN, making it difficult to mix up a batch of boom-boom.  But perhaps the biggest hurdle is detonating it.

Oh, and diesel works better than petrol due to its higher calorific value.

Clearly I'm not a bomb maker.  Grin
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Mefiante
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2015, 10:30:23 AM »

Clearly I'm not a bomb maker.  Grin
Yup, thank rationality for that! Wink

There are lots of other off-the-shelf chemicals that can be used to concoct explosives fairly easily.

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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2015, 10:32:54 AM »

Haha, that is what happens when you type on a phone Smiley My bad.

Was my main suspect.

Quote
Nah I get a lot of you're saying, but these mass shootings in the US has now almost become an institution

Many commentators do point out though that lots of countries where automatic assault weapons are just as easily accessible don't have the same problem... This seems to be something that has originated and perpetuated almost entirely in the USA. It has happened once or twice outside the US, but they are ground zero, and I think it's reasonable to say that international analogues were inspired by incidents in the USA.

The real question is... Why? And will removing the guns solve the problem?
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2015, 10:42:18 AM »

... how easy it is to get legal firearms in the US
I went for proficiency training two days ago (as you may be aware, this is the first step in a long sequence of events required before you may defend yourself with anything more effective than a bread knife  Wink) and this very thing came up.  I haven't researched this myself, but according to the instructor, our firearm legislation is among the most liberal in the world. He says that in the US you must also go through training, but their system is structured in another way than ours. He mentioned a few countries where you may not carry a handgun at all - England was one, I forgot the rest.

I think the US does allow its citizenry to own automatics, though. Over here you have to be a dedicated collector with lots of special memberships and certificates to prove that you are what you say you are.

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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2015, 10:51:58 AM »

England was one, I forgot the rest.

I know Australia is another.

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Over here you have to be a dedicated collector with lots of special memberships and certificates to prove that you are what you say you are.

And yet sometimes you see lowly security guards walking around with them. And what about cash-in-transit guys? I'm sure they have fully automatic armaments. Or do they make them all semi-automatic?
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2015, 10:55:54 AM »

Those would should be semis, yes. Automatics are prohibited unless you are military or police. Or a collector.

There are lots of other off-the-shelf chemicals that can be used to concoct explosives fairly easily.
This is so. It took all of two minutes to rummage though some cupboards and lockers to assemble this little hamper for the photograph. Bought individually for entirely less festive purposes, of course. And yet there they were, knocking around the house for ages! Undecided



Rigil

PS: Pics don't seem to upload no more. Sad
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 12:19:22 PM by Rigil Kent » Logged
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