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Monuments

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Tweefo
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« on: April 09, 2015, 10:46:19 AM »

Must they stay or must they go? I can understand that some monuments are really grating to some people, I know it would bug me no end to see a statute of _________ (insert name) every day. On the other hand, some of those figures were important to what we are today, and I can identify with it. Now that Malema and Hofmeyer jumped on the bandwagon I fear that the time for a compromise is over. What a compromise to keep most of us happy, I've got no idea. But what do we do now? Would a strong leader be able to cut through the crap and sort this out? Just replacing one culture's icons with another is just going to feed the flames I think.
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 10:59:52 AM »

Couldn't give a shit who'se face you fashion into some physical material form, or who'se face in material form gets taken down.

That this kind of stuff bothers anyone at all is more annoying than anything. That the govt will now have to spend a bucketload more of non-existent taxpayer cash to "fix" this problem is deplorable. Wanna "fix" the "problem"? Get a charity together and take private cash until you can erect your own statues. I'll be sure to not care then too.

That many of the protestors are on Rhodes scholarships adds bonus entertainment value, regardless of what you think of the dead guy.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 13:08:58 PM »

The EFF supporters are in the process of removing the monuments without adding to the tax burden.

I like the idea of housing all the offending statues in a park somewhere, but mostly because of their artistic value. This has been proposed a few times, but such a project  will cost a lot of money: initially in getting the statues to the park, and then as a running expense in controlling the concomitant pigeon influx.
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Brian
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 13:36:47 PM »

....which brings us the biggest monument of them all...the Voortrekker Monument?Huh? Look out for a race war!
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Tweefo
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2015, 13:53:13 PM »

....which brings us the biggest monument of them all...the Voortrekker Monument?Huh? Look out for a race war!
Who does it belong to? Maybe all the old statutes can be moved there and Hofmeyer and leftovers of the AWB can put up a lager? around it.
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2015, 14:00:16 PM »

The EFF supporters are in the process of removing the monuments without adding to the tax burden.

Not if you listen to all the suggestions that old monuments should be replaced with new ones. Guess it depends on who you ask.

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brianvds
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2015, 14:25:02 PM »

I'm pretty much with BoogieMonster here: I couldn't possibly care less.

The rightwingers are amusing: when it was announced that Rhodes had to go, lots of Afrikaners angrily phoned radio stations to complain about this assault on their history. They clearly don't have the foggiest clue of their history.

For Oom Paul's own safety, it's probably best to move him to the Voortrekker Monument or some such place, but I suspect Hofmeyr and friends don't want that. Only a question of time before the venerable old gentleman and his guards become scrap metal - wait and see.

Perhaps they should compromise and put a statue of Freddie Kruger on Church Square. It would surely reflect the country's mindset more accurately...
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2015, 14:43:51 PM »

... lots of Afrikaners angrily phoned radio stations to complain about this assault on their history.


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Hermes
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2015, 15:29:37 PM »

http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/2015/04/09/cecil-john-rhodes-colonises-gumtree
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2015, 15:34:28 PM »

Onthou die Afrikaners was nie 'n homogene gemeenskap gewees nie, en daar was veral 'n skeiding tussen die van die boererepublieke, en diegene in die kuskolonies. Rhodes kon ongetwyfeld baie van die Kaapse Afrikaners onder sy volgelinge tel, en dit was juis met hulle ondersteuning dat hy eerste minister van die Kaapkolonie geword het. Rhodes was dus glad nie so volksvreemd aan ten minste 'n gedeelte van die Afrikanerdom as wat mens dalk sou verwag nie, en speel wel 'n groot rol in hul geskiedenis.

http://www.mieliestronk.com/cjrhodes.html

For Oom Paul's own safety, it's probably best to move him to the Voortrekker Monument
Oom Paul's is a huge effigy, and cannot be moved very far. Such monuments are known as statues of limitations.
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Brian
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2015, 15:48:34 PM »

then there's the oxwagon kraal at Blood river....will make many brass bullets from them.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2015, 15:54:45 PM »

Why don't they take that bunny that they grinded out of Mandela's ear and braze it into Oom Paul's? That way everyone should be happy at minimal cost.
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 17:26:33 PM »

Onthou die Afrikaners was nie 'n homogene gemeenskap gewees nie, en daar was veral 'n skeiding tussen die van die boererepublieke, en diegene in die kuskolonies. Rhodes kon ongetwyfeld baie van die Kaapse Afrikaners onder sy volgelinge tel, en dit was juis met hulle ondersteuning dat hy eerste minister van die Kaapkolonie geword het. Rhodes was dus glad nie so volksvreemd aan ten minste 'n gedeelte van die Afrikanerdom as wat mens dalk sou verwag nie, en speel wel 'n groot rol in hul geskiedenis.

Great.... Maar: WHO CARES?! Ek kan nie jou geskiedenis aanval nie, dis te laat!

My punt is dis als 'n bakleiery oor niks, oor standbeelde, fisiese drogbeelde van dooie mense wat hulle deur middel van wonder-denkery dan sodanig ophef of afbreek. Hoekom voel enigiemand 'n fok of daar 'n standbeeld van Rhodes is? Maak dit hom meer awesome? Maak die afbreek van sy standbeeld hom minder awesome? Hy word definitief glad nie daardeur geaffekteer nie, Hy's baie baie dood. Niemand se lewe word skielik omgekeur as die standbeeld dan nou weg is nie...  Wat verander daadwerklik aan enigiemand se geskiedenis of die standbeeld nou daar staan of nie?

Die hele bohaai herhinder my persoonlik aan die Gulliver storie.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 17:44:34 PM »


Great.... Maar: WHO CARES?! Ek kan nie jou geskiedenis aanval nie, dis te laat!


Is daar vir jou waarde in die beelde van aapmense wat in museums uitgestal word, en indien wel, hoe verskil sulke beelde dan wesenlik van enige ander beeld wat ten doel het om die mens aan sy geskiedenis herinner?

Rigil
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Mefiante
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 19:46:50 PM »

Rigil, ek sien nie die verband nie.  Die doel van beelde in museums is om so akkuraat as wat moontlik is, objektief te toon hoe dinge waarskynlik is of was volgens ons beste huidige kennis.  In teenstelling is die doel van openlik vertoonde standbeelde, gewoonweg om subjektiewe en kunssinnige waardebeoordelings (bv. eer of oneer) te lewer oor idees, konsepte, dinge of (spesifieke) persone.

Die doele is dus m.i. heel verskillend.

'Luthon64
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