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Religion-Free Africa

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Description: New group on Facebook
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StevoMuso
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« on: March 01, 2010, 21:07:47 PM »

I know some of us hate Facebook, but I have been wanting to start an organization called Religion-Free Africa for some time now. Someone suggested we start it as a group on Facebook as a kind of test run.

So if any of you are interested check it out at
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=329626369386

It's at least a start ...
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Barryl
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 11:58:42 AM »

I suggest that before attempting such a project that we qualify ourselves in such a manner to get rapport with potential readers.  I personally think that a religion-free society will not be achievable for many decades to come. But there could be a gradual change (people changing and/or their religion changing).E.g.the Catholic Church already accepts Evolution as fact!!
I recommend studying the following sources:
  1.  Atheism Advanced by Dr David Eller (very good)
  2. https://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/128d3a04cb18bdbd] [url]https://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/128d3a04cb18bdbd[/url]
  3. http://www.southernatheist.org/] [url]http://www.southernatheist.org/[/url]
  4.http://atheism.about.com] [url]http://atheism.about.com[/url]

Barryl
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Brian
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 12:21:42 PM »

My problem with atheism is its stigma and it's just another label...freedom of expression, -beliefs etc is a much better marketing approach...the religious have stigmatised us and in Africa (and other countries) we're still considered evil and satanist. Africa free from foreign influence (colonialism, religions of all types, control by neo colonialists such as the Chinese etc) could be a strong approach as well...sorry I'm just thinking aloud. Critical consciousness is not a great asset among most Africans (used generically) and our schools perpetrate socialisation, obedience, paternalism and adherence to authority and actively oppose creativity, critical thinking etc. Religion is merely one of the areas where this is prevalent. I was one of SA's representatives before the ANC was unbanned at a East African conference in Mbabane, Swaziland and when women's rights were discussed, I was attacked for attempting to suggest that women have equal rights to men....I was told...'Don't meddle with our traditions'. We have a long way to go...but yes Stevo...I'm there with you. We have to start somewhere.
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GCG
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2010, 12:34:32 PM »

I really dont believe its anybody's job to spread the word that there is no god.  it will just make the religious powers work harder to show their fold that we are the anti-christ, and that we are to be fought tooth and nail.
by making a campaign of it, we are setting ourselves for the epic battle that revlelations are warning them against.  we are falling exactly into the box that was prepared for us.
in order to spread the word, as it were, we need to be passive, rather than agressive.  and focus our attentions on the ills of religion, as opposed to the actual root of it.  like the lesbian that was assaulted by the woos.  point on the wrongness of their actions,  not the wrongness of their religion. if that makes any sense.
knowing the religious as i do,  and knowing what kind of mindset the religious leaders will use, being agressive in our approach to spreading the truth of atheism, is only going to make them more determined to keep their fold away from us.  where subtle poking would spark a curiousness, in-your-face actions, will make them go 'see, see' they are doing satan's work'.  its inevitable.
society is moving away from religion, more now than ever.  yes, its because more people are being brave enough to say what needs to be said.  and they will hold conferences, write books, etc.  but they wont actively go out there and hunt the religious to convert.  that would just make you as bad as them.
i am quietly atheist.  when in the company of fellow atheists, i will rant and go on about the stupidity of it.  in religious company, i will plant the seed, and let it be.  if someone wants to know more, i will point them in the right direction.  i will never push the subject unwarranted.  
ihave joined several atheist facebook groups.  and for every atheist group, there is a hundred godly ones,  and plenty directly mentioning the scourge of the atheists that is stealing souls away from god.  we should not be giving them a stick to beat us with.
stupid analogy.
a colt is ready to be broken in for riding.  if you run him tired, force a bit into his mouth, punish him for bolting, and forceably saddle him, you will either have an very difficult horse to ride afterwards, or a completely broken, but resentfull and deliberatly spitefull animal.
or if you slowly introduce him to the tack, offer him treats for good behaviour.  show him how the experience can be enjoyable for all involved, your horse will be eager to be ridden, and tought new things.  and will be a joy to handle.

just my opinion.  
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Barryl
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2010, 16:06:02 PM »

Quote
i will plant the seed, and let it be.  if someone wants to know more, i will point them in the right direction.  i will never push the subject unwarranted. 

I agree with you gothcatgirl.  We are not out to proselytize.  The approach should and has to be subtle. We should not talk their (religious) language. As David Eller correctly states that religions are languages which were learned. The language is so imbedded and besides you cannot unlearn a language -- you can only learn a new (may be better) language.  Use the methods of indoctrination which they use - tell stories, invent and translate myths. Rational reasoning alone will not work: Just this weekend I chatted a friend of mine who is academically trained and qualified (civil engineer). He told me that evolution occurred only as far as the black race but the white race was created by god. Needless to say I was gobsmacked. From practical experience I know you cannot reason with alcohol-intoxicated people (my workers over weekends on the farm for example) well there is an analogy here with religion-intoxication.  But maybe we are too much in a hurry - time will do its share (evolution in some facets takes longer). The Greek religion is history now.

I have in a way been successful just by telling stories.  They listen to that. For example, the one where the Buddhist and the Christian were conversing and the Christian said to the Buddhist that they must prey to God to make this a better world to which the Buddhist replied that he thinks the Lord won't do it but instead will them that they(we) had made the world for what it is and they(we) must fix it. Please read David Eller - Atheism Advanced

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StevoMuso
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 09:54:28 AM »

I really dont believe its anybody's job to spread the word that there is no god.

GCG, I agree with you. When I say that Religion-Free Africa's purpose is to "promote critical thinking" etc. I don't mean we are going to "preach the atheist-gospel" in the same way Christians preach theirs. I mean we need an organization that actively gives a rational view when religion or superstition shows their ugly side. For example, there is a guy in Nigeria who spoke out against witch-hunting and the indiscriminate killing of little children for "witchcraft". There has been a documentary made from his efforts and the main witch-hunter Helen Ukpabio, head of the Liberty Gospel Church in Nigeria, has been exposed as a result.

In my everyday life I am silent about my atheism, like you. I don't go around proselytizing and "witnessing" to believers. But I also think there is a place for rational people to be more active. I would LOVE to send a letter to someone important about this stupid moral code thing being drawn up by Ray McCauley and other religious leaders. But the letter will carry more weight if it came from an organization like RFA.

If you go to the Freedom From Religion Foundation website (www.ffrf.org) you will see how effective they are. I just wanted to start a similar effort in SA, and I think it can work, and I also think the timing is good.
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GCG
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2010, 10:58:01 AM »

i think, in that regard, we need to start by exposing religious stupidity, like those people who kicked the lesbian,  let us all draft letters and emails, and bombard them with it.  we need some kind of journalistic exposure as well, to make sure our actions receive some print or airtime.
i would gladly draw up letters, even picket, for the sake of exposing injustice.  problem is, most people are all talk and no action. 
i have come up with plenty of ideas to make an impact, but alas, little to no response.  south africans are just,...lame.
i would love to picket outside a church that has that bright neon cross blasing on top of a hill.  or in front of xtian only schools.  but i would be the only sod standing there.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2010, 16:52:13 PM »

i think, in that regard, we need to start by exposing religious stupidity, like those people who kicked the lesbian,  let us all draft letters and emails, and bombard them with it.  we need some kind of journalistic exposure as well, to make sure our actions receive some print or airtime.
i would gladly draw up letters, even picket, for the sake of exposing injustice.  problem is, most people are all talk and no action. 
i have come up with plenty of ideas to make an impact, but alas, little to no response.  south africans are just,...lame.
i would love to picket outside a church that has that bright neon cross blasing on top of a hill.  or in front of xtian only schools.  but i would be the only sod standing there.

You make a valid point. It's difficult to find non-believers who are willing to picket, write articles/letters. I think the FFRF works because they have 1000s of members, and out of those there will always be the few who are the doers.

I have just had my Thursday gig cancelled a few minutes ago. So with Wednesdays and Saturdays also cancelled it means I am R3000 down per week, which translates to R12000 per month. I am panicking about money right now and frantically looking for gigs. Being active for RFI is one of the last things on my mind. It may also be the case for others - we are so busy trying to make a living in these trying times that there is little time or energy left for anything else.

Hey GCG, wouldn't you like to become an "admin" person for RFI? I will appoint you to become an administrator which will mean you can make posts on the site etc. I would be honoured, in fact, to have you as an administrator. Did you get the shit fixed with accessing Facebook from work?
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GCG
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2010, 17:18:05 PM »

still cant access FB from work, but can do from cell, basic stuff, posting and the like.
if you trust me not to kill idiots outright, you can make me master of the effing universe bro.

btw, my ex is a super band manager, and is lank connected with muzo's and gigs.  so if you want, i can hook the two of you up.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2010, 17:24:37 PM »

still cant access FB from work, but can do from cell, basic stuff, posting and the like.
if you trust me not to kill idiots outright, you can make me master of the effing universe bro.

btw, my ex is a super band manager, and is lank connected with muzo's and gigs.  so if you want, i can hook the two of you up.

Thanks GCG. I will send you my cell number on a PM. I will go find you on RFA and make you admin - thanks.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 17:39:12 PM »

I will go find you on RFA and make you admin - thanks.

... if you join, that is.  Undecided
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GCG
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2010, 17:49:14 PM »

invite me dude. searching is kak hard on the fone  Grin
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