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SA's Morality debate....

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Faerie
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« on: February 26, 2010, 08:47:05 AM »

Errr....

Rhema's McCauley, former bouncer with a criminal record, twice divorced, married to a former prositute and our esteemed leader, a polygamist with 20 children (a percentage of which is illigitimate) will now lead this country in a morality debate?  How much weirder can this world become than this?

Quote
McCauley, ANC links to morality debate
2010-02-25 23:12
Cape Town - The debate about a moral code for South Africa which was initiated by President Jacob Zuma will probably be driven by an interfaith group with strong ties to the ANC, but in which none of the country's foremost religious forums are represented.

In church circles this development has been labelled a serious danger to relations between church and state.

Die Burger heard from a reliable source on Wednesday that the National Interfaith Leadership Council (NILC), which was convened last year by pastor Ray McCauley of the Rhema church, may be asked to co-ordinate Zuma's proposed discussions on morality.

The NILC was established in July last year as an organisation consisting of over 20 senior leaders from various religious groups, but upon closer inspection it appears as if none of the foremost religious forums - such as the South African Council of Churches (SACC), the Muslim Judicial Council (MJC) or the Jewish Board of Deputies - were approached to join the NILC


http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/Politics/1057/a44800c532014ff09cc9bbe77aad3500/25-02-2010-11-12/McCauley,_ANC_links_to_morality_debate_

 WTF!!
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GCG
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 09:13:31 AM »

oh
my
soul
 Shocked
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 13:33:15 PM »

Combining church and state has always been a huge problem. We are in serious shit if these idiots start trying to formulate a moral code for SA. My view is that religion removes one's ability to be truly moral. Morality should be a social skill rather than a religious duty. Religion has failed to produce a moral society and will continue to do so.

Mind you ... this so-called 'moral code' will most probably have zero effect on the average citizen, so we may not be in so much shit after all.

And another thing: it is only religious people who feel the need to formulate "codes of morality". Normal people (like us, hehe) are quite capable of making our own moral choices based on sound reasoning and skills necessary for survival as a social species. In fact, I think it is down-right insulting for these people to dare suggest they can make a moral code that no-one else is capable of making on their own. I cannot think of anything more arrogant and presumptuous.
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Mefiante
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 16:47:34 PM »

The underlying and unquestioned assumption, of course, is that religious figureheads are paragons of virtue and society’s moral guardians.  If anyone prominently shows this to be a misguided notion then it is Ray McCauley.  It will be a travesty of human goodness if he gets meaningfully to add his views to the debate, quite apart from the obviously great difficulty of reconciling assorted religious and cultural takes on morality.  It seems almost certain that it will be impossible to generate a moral code that does not tread on at least some religious and/or cultural toes.  More importantly, SA is supposed to be a secular state with a secular constitution that embraces a secular morality.  This proposal looks suspiciously like an attempt to insert a religious wedge into the present arrangement.  The Constitutional Court will very likely reject any attempt to enact such a code in legislation, which would be the only way to enforce it.

'Luthon64
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 21:00:03 PM »

The Constitutional Court will very likely reject any attempt to enact such a code in legislation, which would be the only way to enforce it.

Let's hope so. I cannot believe the cheek and audacity of these arrogant idiots  Angry
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Irreverend
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 08:48:52 AM »

McCauley and Zooma on morality? I guess that means polygamy and fraud will be high up on the list of virtues.
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bluegray
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 14:30:09 PM »

Is polygamy morally wrong?
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 17:16:32 PM »

Yeah, I've been wondering what's so bad about that. Only the religious morality brigade usually get upset about this stuff.

But why focus on polygamy when you've got corruption, fraud, etc. to pick on anyway?
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Wandapec
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 18:18:45 PM »

Is polygamy morally wrong?
Let me check with my wives and get back to you on that... Grin
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Tweefo
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 18:36:41 PM »

Is the other way around also OK? Can a woman have more than one husband?
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Sentinel
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 20:18:01 PM »

Is the other way around also OK? Can a woman have more than one husband?
Then each man can have his set of wives and each of the wives have their husbands, which in turn have their own wives, which in turn have their own husbands...

Sounds like a recipe for disaster!
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Jane of the Jungle
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 08:01:35 AM »

Is the other way around also OK? Can a woman have more than one husband?

 Grin

Quote
Polyandry

Polyandry (a woman having multiple husbands) occurs very rarely in a few isolated tribal societies with limited resources. These societies include some bands of the Canadian Inuit, although the practice has declined sharply in the 20th century due to their conversion from tribal religion to Christianity by Moravian missionaries. Additionally, the Spartans were notable for practicing polyandry. Spartan polyandry often took the form of adelphic polyandry (where the husbands are all biological brothers).

Societies which permit group marriage are extremely rare, but have existed in Utopian societies such as the Oneida Community.

Today, many married people practice various forms of consensual nonmonogamy, including polyamory and swinging. These people have agreements with their spouses that permit other intimate relationships or sexual partners. Therefore, the concept of marriage need not necessarily hinge on sexual or emotional monogamy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_marriages
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Faerie
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 08:20:10 AM »

Is the other way around also OK? Can a woman have more than one husband?

My first reaction was "Oh Gawd, imagine keeping more than one happy, fed, clothed etcetera" and then the second thought almost simultaneously was: "Hey, I wouldnt need to work, if I had 4 husbands all paying me a monthly stipend, I'd easily be able to cope!"

So there we go, its all about what floats your boat!  Grin
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 08:50:29 AM »

Good points above. Why is it only men in these religions who get be polygamous? And only men who get to be suicide bombers and get 500 virgins for their effort? Who's to say all those virgins are supposed to be female waiting for some male to came and have his pleasure with them.

When I lived in Lebowa doing missionary work (in the 80s) one thing that struck me is that the black community is extremely male dominated (especially the Xhosa and Zulu where polygamy is part of the culture). Women are treated almost as badly as they are in Islamic countries. One house I went to (Xhosa) the women weren't allowed to sit on a chair (ever) in the house, and the young lady who served me my meal did so by shuffling into the room on her knees - and this was normal for her.

And these are some of the men who will decide on a moral code? Shit - put this with Rhema's version of Christianity and it will be a fiasco.
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Mefiante
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 10:26:34 AM »

Is polygamy morally wrong?
Like just about every moral principle, it’s debatable because morality is almost always circumstantial.  The trouble is that, in practice, polygamy tends to conflict with the moral principle of equal rights for all because polygamy is common in patriarchies where social status is determined by the number of wives and children a man has, and the women are expected to be meek and subservient.  Swaziland’s king is a demonstrative case in point.

'Luthon64
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