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SA's Morality debate....

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Julian
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2010, 18:13:44 PM »

Errr....

Rhema's McCauley, former bouncer with a criminal record, twice divorced, married to a former prositute and our esteemed leader, a polygamist with 20 children (a percentage of which is illigitimate) will now lead this country in a morality debate?  How much weirder can this world become than this?

Is he really married to a former prostitute? That's pretty colourful. Not that I'd imagine that (or the past criminal record) to be a problem in terms of Christian morality, surely the twice divorced bit is the only real problem?

But yeah, morality debate my ass! Maybe they can invite the pope to join in.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 16:28:05 PM by Julian » Logged
Brian
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2010, 12:07:06 PM »

Why is it only men in these religions who get be polygamous? And only men who get to be suicide bombers and get 500 virgins for their effort?
I suspect that the tradition developed from thousands of years back when men died early due to hunting expeditions and fighting and to ensure the survival of the species,tribe, family, clan,etc. they had many wives, many offspring etc...If you were to reverse the ratio, the poor woman would still only produce one offspring every 9 months. So let's assume a clan of 10 woman each with ten husbands: total population = 110. Every year assuming no mortalities, it would grow by a maximum of 10 babies: ten years forward the clan will total 210-230 (I think). The other way around 10 men each with ten wives the ultimate count after ten years will be 1010 (the issue of affordability, mortality etc is left out of the equation).
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2010, 18:09:30 PM »

Why is it only men in these religions who get be polygamous? And only men who get to be suicide bombers and get 500 virgins for their effort?
I suspect that the tradition developed from thousands of years back when men died early due to hunting expeditions and fighting and to ensure the survival of the species,tribe, family, clan,etc. they had many wives, many offspring etc...If you were to reverse the ratio, the poor woman would still only produce one offspring every 9 months. So let's assume a clan of 10 woman each with ten husbands: total population = 110. Every year assuming no mortalities, it would grow by a maximum of 10 babies: ten years forward the clan will total 210-230 (I think). The other way around 10 men each with ten wives the ultimate count after ten years will be 1010 (the issue of affordability, mortality etc is left out of the equation).
My question was rhetoric - just reinforcing my point that some religions (like Christianity and Islam) tend to be completely male dominated. The earth has been replenished - time to use secular morality rather than religious idiocy (hehe).
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Brian
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 08:15:19 AM »

quote]
My question was rhetoric - just reinforcing my point that some religions (like Christianity and Islam) tend to be completely male dominated. The earth has been replenished - time to use secular morality rather than religious idiocy (hehe).
Totally agree. An extract from "Moses was a Liar" (Raider Books NY 2009) "Rachel continued, "it goes to show that throughout history, the woman has at best been ignored; not appreciated for her mind and at worst she’s been exploited and even abused with impunity by men. There was a time when the Catholic Church of the Ancients which was the biggest Christian church in the world of the Ancients, argued that women did not have souls. They even debated whether they were human."
and further: "Men (of Islam) of course could wear what they wanted to. It follows that when women spoke out against this discrimination they were often very severely punished. You’ll notice that again it is the woman who is the source of evil, not the man whose thoughts could be impure. This created an enormous gap between people often leading to violence, bombings, murder and importantly to the subjugation of women. It is a symptom of the male’s arrogance that women are considered to be impure and the cause of man’s sins."
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Peter Grant
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 10:48:16 AM »

Rhema's McCauley, former bouncer

I don't like bouncers, the bastards steel my stash and they're never around when there's a real fight.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2010, 23:31:27 PM »

There was a time when the Catholic Church of the Ancients which was the biggest Christian church in the world of the Ancients, argued that women did not have souls. They even debated whether they were human."
and further: "Men (of Islam) of course could wear what they wanted to. It follows that when women spoke out against this discrimination they were often very severely punished. You’ll notice that again it is the woman who is the source of evil, not the man whose thoughts could be impure. This created an enormous gap between people often leading to violence, bombings, murder and importantly to the subjugation of women. It is a symptom of the male’s arrogance that women are considered to be impure and the cause of man’s sins."
And these are the idiots who are trying to formulate a moral code for SA - Reason help us!!
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Irreverend
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2010, 22:31:38 PM »

Reason help us!!
Can't. These tossers wouldn't be involved if reason had anything to do with it.
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StevoMuso
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2010, 22:57:47 PM »

Reason help us!!
Can't. These tossers wouldn't be involved if reason had anything to do with it.

My bad. I guess it's my obscure sense of humour. The believers say "God help us" so I was saying the same thing but implying that Reason is my God - obscure, I know, but my attempt at "clever" humour. I was, in a sense, calling on my God of Reason to stop these un-Reasonable dimwits and a-Reasonists and their wicked Godly ways from imposing non-Reasonous a-morality.  Evil WTF!!
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Brian
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2010, 07:37:36 AM »


my God of Reason to stop these un-Reasonable dimwits and a-Reasonists and their wicked Godly ways from imposing non-Reasonous a-morality.  Evil WTF!!
Sounds reasonable! Grin
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st0nes
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2010, 18:09:39 PM »

I suspect that the tradition developed from thousands of years back when men died early due to hunting expeditions and fighting and to ensure the survival of the species,tribe, family, clan,etc. they had many wives, many offspring etc...If you were to reverse the ratio, the poor woman would still only produce one offspring every 9 months. So let's assume a clan of 10 woman each with ten husbands: total population = 110. Every year assuming no mortalities, it would grow by a maximum of 10 babies: ten years forward the clan will total 210-230 (I think). The other way around 10 men each with ten wives the ultimate count after ten years will be 1010 (the issue of affordability, mortality etc is left out of the equation).
Quite correct.  That's why men fight wars--you can kill off a heck of a lot of them and have a minimal effect on population growth.  If you sent women of child-bearing age to the front it would be a different story.
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Hermes
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2010, 14:17:53 PM »

McCauley's formation goes under the name National Interfaith Leadership Council (NILC).

On Thursday another religious grouping, including the Ecumenical Society of SA, the Anglican Church, the Methodist Church and the Muslem Judicial Council met with Vice Mothlanthe to express their concerns about the NILC acting as though it is representative of religion in SA.   They claim that the NICL is not a "legitimate interfaith organization".

Mothlanthe reassured the delegates that a former agreement between government and themselves remains intact.  According to this agreement, churches and religious organizations would receive money from government for social functions such as fighting HIV/Aids and illiteracy.

And you thought SA was a secular state?
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Irreverend
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2010, 08:26:01 AM »

When will the scientologists demand a piece of the action?
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Faerie
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2010, 07:33:12 AM »

Lovely....


Quote
Church has role to play - Zuma
2010-06-22 18:43
 
Pretoria - President Jacob Zuma on Tuesday undertook to work with the faith-based sector, saying that the church had a specific role to play in governance.

"I believe we work well together. This was well overdue," Zuma said after talks with the SA Council of Churches at the Union Buildings in Pretoria.

Had the interaction begun earlier, a number of programmes would already have been started.

Zuma said the church's role was to give advice and constructive criticism.

He said the government and the SACC had agreed to look for ways of strengthening their relationship and working for the common good.

SACC general secretary Reverend Joe Seoka believed the church and government could work together and make a difference in people's lives.

He and Zuma described the meeting as "good" and "fruitful".

Zuma emphasised that other organisations would not be excluded from interaction.


- SAPA


I wonder whether an Atheist organisation would be welcome?
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Brian
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2010, 07:47:30 AM »

let's ask him...but which atheist organisation?  Freedom from Religion?
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Teleological
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2010, 09:34:40 AM »

I am curious, what would an atheist organization bring to the table with regards to morality?
Relativism with no objective morals?
Naturalism with no ultimate responsibility and free will?
Materialism with no mental phenomena?
Humanism? How exactly would this be different from other religiously motivated humanisms?
Scientism or logical positivism? With science being the only measure of truth even though science can't prove it?... Scientism being either self-defeating or trivially true...
Rationalism? Knocking down responsibility, mental phenomena and objective morality and then claim to be a rationalist is not going to convince many people really. In fact it will look a little silly. If you deny relativism, materialism, naturalism, scientism what is left for atheism really? It become a negative outlook towards a particular belief. What is positive about it?

So what will atheist organizations bring to the table besides negativity and a deconstructive attitude?
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