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Xenophobia

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Tweefo
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« on: May 18, 2008, 12:46:04 PM »

I think the xenophobia attacks may have been a genuine fear of job losses to start off with, but it is now just an excuse for anarchy.  It is the people with ambition who move to another place so that should be a positive thing for an area to receive these people. It is the low lives who complain but they probably would have been unemployed anyway. The root of the problem is too many people but it is these same low lives who procreate like mad.
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johanvz
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 22:00:46 PM »

Too many assumptions and generalizations here.

...but it is now just an excuse for anarchy.
Why would they want to cause anarchy without any reason?

It is the people with ambition who move to another place so that should be a positive thing for an area to receive these people.
The Nigerians in Hillbrow seems to be a good example of people with ambition really improving an area. Huh?

It is the low lives who complain but they probably would have been unemployed anyway.
I think there is some genuine concern regarding South Africa's immigration and border control policies. Please could you also site evidence which shows that these people would've been unemployed anyway.

The root of the problem is too many people but it is these same low lives who procreate like mad.
Once again. Please define what you mean by "procreating like mad" and the evidence to support that claim.

My opinion on this matter is that these Xenophobic attacks are appalling and creating an extremely dangerous situation. They are also using barbaric ways to raise their concerns. That is unacceptable.

However, assuming that these people are completely useless, with no valid concerns, with their only aim to cause anarchy does not help.
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Tweefo
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2008, 13:09:41 PM »

Quote
Why would they want to cause anarchy without any reason?
To much free time? The people driving it now are the youths with nothing better to do.
Quote
The Nigerians in Hillbrow seems to be a good example of people with ambition really improving an area.
Sure there are bad apples. It is usually 20% of a sample that cause 80% of the problems. Where would America, Australia and South Africa be without immigrants?
Quote
I think there is some genuine concern regarding South Africa's immigration and border control policies. Please could you also site evidence which shows that these people would've been unemployed anyway.
How do you find a job if there is a lot of competition? You qualify yourself better than the next person. Is it highly qualified people out there on the street? I doubted it.
Quote
Please define what you mean by "procreating like mad" and the evidence to support that claim.
Are these people using their free time to study for a better live? You have mothers of 15 - 16 years old.
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bluegray
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 13:02:43 PM »

Whatever the reason for this flareup of attacks, I agree with the public statement Mbeki issued:
"Citizens from other countries on the African continent and beyond are as human as we are and deserve to be treated with respect and dignity," the president said in a statement.

"We dehumanise ourselves the moment we start thinking of another person as less human than we are simply because they come from another country."

South Africans should appreciate that they were bound to other Africans by culture, economics and above all, history.

"South Africa is not and will never be an island separate from the rest of the continent," he said.

Mbeki called upon those behind the "shameful and criminal acts" to stop.

"The law-enforcement agencies must and will respond with the requisite measures against anyone found to be involved in these attacks."

Mbeki thanked the public, police and community members who had joined in with calls for the cessation of violence.

"In particular, I would like to thank those who have lent a helping hand to the victims by, amongst others, offering shelter, clothes and food."

These people, he said, had demonstrated true South African spirit.
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Tweefo
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 14:20:22 PM »

Mbeki recognise a crisis? Now there's a first. But I agree - just because someone was not born here doesn't make him/her a bad person. It is starting to spill over though. A South African employer had his house burned because he employed workers from other countries. I say again there are to many people. Take all the immigrants out and there are still going to be more people than jobs. We need to slow the birth rate down - not just here but worldwide.
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bluegray
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 14:35:47 PM »

Mbeki recognise a crisis? Now there's a first.
My thoughts exactly. His 'quiet diplomacy' certainly did not help the current situation with people trying to escape conditions in Zimbabwe.
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scienceteacheragain
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 14:10:50 PM »

I saw on TV an analyst suggesting that the anger is misplaced.  I agree with his suggestion that these people are desperate.  They are totally impoverished and desperate.  They were made certain promises by the government that have not been fulfilled, but instead of complaining to the government, they see these foreigners as causing the problem and then once the mob mentality takes over, things get ugly.  His suggestion was further supported by the interviews on the program where many were saying that they do not have a house because all the houses were beiing taken up by foreigners.
In no case should violence be used to vent frustrations, but it often happens that way.
I find the government response disappointing.  A few years ago some Xenophobic violence broke out and spread like wildfire.  This time, the government should have learned from that and been more proactive when it first started.  Instead, they were slow to respond, and did not respond with enough vigor, and it is spreading like wildfire again.
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pawpaw1000
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 10:21:33 AM »

well, they have voiced their dissapointment to government but like all other things including Eskom, Immigration problems and the scorpions... THEY DONT LISTEN! SA isnt in a democracy, not enough opposition for that! Government does just what they want when they want and deal with the consiquences later, very inefficiently I might add...
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bluegray
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 12:12:29 PM »

Ai.
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/&articleId=339805
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bluegray
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 13:59:02 PM »

Not that these events are funny, but I was quite relieved to see that this article was an attempt at some humour. Or so I hope, you can never tell with some people...

http://www.hayibo.com/articles/view/780
"We need to be less eager to believe in this thing called xenophobia," he said. "Arachnophobia, yes. Spiders are horrible. But what is a xeno? There is no such thing."
...
He said that as long as international visitors stayed away from criminals and did not ask out local girls or set up discount spaza shops in townships, they were "unlikely to be set on fire".
...
Opposition parties have been calling on Mbeki to enforce law and order by sending the South African National Defence Force into the townships, but Mbeki dismissed this out of hand.

"This is not an acceptable solution. The SANDF has spent the last ten years training for African peacekeeping missions. Our soldiers are totally focused on only one thing, and that is shooting at small groups of Burundians and so forth who are running away with their possessions on their heads.

"There would be a bloodbath, and FIFA have insisted that we keep bloodbaths to a minimum before 2010."

However he said that his government was setting up a task team whose role would be to "ask difficult questions".

"For example, if you set a Zimbabwean on fire and there's no-one from FIFA around to see it, did it really happen? And more importantly, if it did happen, how is it my problem?"

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bluegray
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2008, 12:59:19 PM »

The 21-st century pencil test
The Zuma factor
Great countries welcome immigrants
« Last Edit: May 24, 2008, 13:18:52 PM by bluegray V » Logged
Wandapec
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2008, 20:35:53 PM »

"We need to be less eager to believe in this thing called xenophobia," he said. "Arachnophobia, yes. Spiders are horrible. But what is a xeno? There is no such thing."

I am probably being a little boring but found that comment strange so I looked it up - xeno- a combining form meaning “alien,” “strange,” “guest,” used in the formation of compound words: xenogamy, xenolith.
I saw on TV an analyst suggesting that the anger is misplaced.  I agree with his suggestion that these people are desperate.  They are totally impoverished and desperate.  They were made certain promises by the government that have not been fulfilled, but instead of complaining to the government, they see these foreigners as causing the problem and then once the mob mentality takes over, things get ugly.  His suggestion was further supported by the interviews on the program where many were saying that they do not have a house because all the houses were beiing taken up by foreigners.
In no case should violence be used to vent frustrations, but it often happens that way.

I think you hit the nail on the head with regards the mob mentality. I think much of the violence is opportunistic, once it gets going it is easy to join the crowd and forget that you are treating other human beings in the most horrific manner.
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