South Africa Flag logo

South African Skeptics

July 08, 2020, 03:36:42 AM
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
Go to mobile page.
News: Please read the forum rules before posting.
   
   Skeptic Forum Board Index   Help Forum Rules Search GoogleTagged Login Register Chat Blogroll  
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic:

Wasteful

 (Read 4368 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Rigil Kent
Clotting Factor
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +20/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 2521


Three men make a tiger.


« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2014, 15:36:35 PM »

Or you can just kick a car's butt 80:1  when it comes to energy efficiency.



(If I may be forgiven to push a worthy cause:  http://qhubeka.org/2013/)

Rigil
Logged
Rigil Kent
Clotting Factor
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +20/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 2521


Three men make a tiger.


« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2014, 15:49:18 PM »


On a somewhat related issue, has anyone driven past our lovely new local wind-farm?


I did drive past Jeffreys, heading to PE, in Dec and did note a wind farm next to the highway somewhere along the way. Is this what you are referring to?


Those would be them. There are two sets: about 24 near Coega, a bit closer to PE, and then a further 60 in the Humansdorp-Jeffreys vicinity. I think they are just about the coolest man-made things I've ever seen. But then again, I don't get out much. Roll Eyes

Rigil
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3230



« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2014, 15:55:00 PM »

...said stuff...

Thanks Mefi, this pretty much confirms how I viewed the whole exercise.

All the things you mention about usable torque and power output I've experienced in real life.

One thing I'm realising more and more though, is that we are keen to bitch about/analyse the costs associated with green(er) technology.... when in fact the alternative may "cost" us our entire civilisation. Against that backdrop the costs of running a greener car suddenly seem paltry.

If I could, I'd be driving a Tesla, running off of power from a fission/fusion reactor.
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3230



« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2014, 15:56:21 PM »

Those would be them. There are two sets: about 24 near Coega, a bit closer to PE, and then a further 60 in the Humansdorp-Jeffreys vicinity. I think they are just about the coolest man-made things I've ever seen. But then again, I don't get out much. Roll Eyes

I was quite taken by them, and surprised to see them. Had no idea.
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3230



« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2014, 16:08:32 PM »

Or you can just kick a car's butt 80:1  when it comes to energy efficiency.


And that's not yet taking into account the totality of the greenhouse gas emissions. CO2 may be one part of the equation, but to make big macs you need cows, and cows produce methane, which is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. I'll admit I have no idea how significant the numbers in that equation would be, but it looks to me like someone is not looking at the entire picture here.... not to mention the methane YOU produce in digesting said cow/food.
Logged
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +14/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 2008



WWW
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2014, 18:03:21 PM »

Rigil: What a lovely bike that is. Alas, around here, cycling does not differ very much from attempted suicide.
Logged
Brian
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +8/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 1367


I think therefor I am, I think


« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2014, 07:30:28 AM »

BM there was an article some time ago that cattle have a greater impact on climate change than all the cars on the planet. Each cow produces 142kg of methane gas annually  http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/11/26/big-methane-burp-cows-refineries-spew-gas/   and
Quote
Agriculture is responsible for an estimated 14 percent of the world's greenhouse gases. A significant portion of these emissions come from methane, which, in terms of its contribution to global warming, is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide.
at http://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/methane-cow.htm
Logged
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +14/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 2008



WWW
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2014, 15:04:49 PM »

BM there was an article some time ago that cattle have a greater impact on climate change than all the cars on the planet. Each cow produces 142kg of methane gas annually  http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/11/26/big-methane-burp-cows-refineries-spew-gas/   and
Quote
Agriculture is responsible for an estimated 14 percent of the world's greenhouse gases. A significant portion of these emissions come from methane, which, in terms of its contribution to global warming, is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide.
at http://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/methane-cow.htm


I have to wonder though, whether there are more cattle today than tehre were similar large herbivores twenty thousand years ago, and whether cattle produce more methane than wild herbivores.
Logged
Brian
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +8/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 1367


I think therefor I am, I think


« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2014, 15:22:59 PM »

This is quite staggering:
Quote
The world's 1.5 billion cows and billions of other grazing animals emit dozens of polluting gases, including lots of methane. Two-thirds of all ammonia comes from cows.
I would expect that revenue producing herds would have increased exponentially with population growth...more eaters more meat needed. Added to that, the natural grazing habits of herbivores would in all likelihood not have produced as much methane as protein rich feeds fed to cattle especially in feedlots.
Quote
a strong push is underway to curb methane emissions there. Cows contribute 3 percent of Britain's overall greenhouse gas emissions and 25 to 30 percent of its methane. In New Zealand, where cattle and sheep farming are major industries, 34 percent of greenhouse gases come from livestock. A three-year study, begun in April 2007 by Welsh scientists, is examining if adding garlic to cow feed can reduce their methane production. The study is ongoing, but early results indicate that garlic cuts cow flatulence in half by attacking methane-producing microbes living in cows' stomachs [Source: BBC News]. The researchers are also looking to see if the addition of garlic affects the quality of the meat or milk produced and even if the animals get bad breath.
from the same article
So garlic flavoured meat??? I like!
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3230



« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2014, 15:24:33 PM »

Yup, That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
Logged
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +14/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 2008



WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2014, 17:13:45 PM »

I would expect that revenue producing herds would have increased exponentially with population growth...more eaters more meat needed. Added to that, the natural grazing habits of herbivores would in all likelihood not have produced as much methane as protein rich feeds fed to cattle especially in feedlots.

So perhaps feedlots are the problem, rather than cattle as such?
Logged
Tweefo
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1569



WWW
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2014, 18:28:24 PM »

I would expect that revenue producing herds would have increased exponentially with population growth...more eaters more meat needed. Added to that, the natural grazing habits of herbivores would in all likelihood not have produced as much methane as protein rich feeds fed to cattle especially in feedlots.

So perhaps feedlots are the problem, rather than cattle as such?

I think it's us that's the problem. Too many of us and we all want to live the good life.
Logged
brianvds
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +14/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 2008



WWW
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2014, 19:35:17 PM »

I think it's us that's the problem. Too many of us and we all want to live the good life.

Yup, the palaeo diet. Not quite as sustainable as it used to be 20 000 years ago. :-)
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  


 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Page created in 3.515 seconds with 24 sceptic queries.
Google visited last this page May 10, 2019, 17:28:36 PM
Privacy Policy