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Non-religious weddings

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beLIEf
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« on: July 08, 2012, 21:19:50 PM »

Now I know there are many on here skeptical of weddings/ marriage but having said yes - very happily, now comes the planning.... obviously there will be no mention of the G word in it - which is where I'm asking for assistance: Does anyone know of anyone who has a marriage license who is preferable non-religious or specialises in those kind of ceremonies? Anyone on here had a non-religious wedding? any links, ideas for reading etc...
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 22:48:51 PM »

Getting hitched hey? Congrats! I think some sea captains are allowed to perform the ceremony on their vessels, so it might be an idea to look into that option. Some more here:
http://www.cape-town-weddings.com/capetownwedding_Legal.aspx

A somewhat amusing requirement is that the wedding venue should have it's doors open during the ceremony! This is presumably to allow for an eleventh hour escape. So, a ship may be just what the doctor ordered if there exist any suspicion that groom is at risk of developing cold feet.

ETA: It is called a "cruise wedding" apparently ... http://www.perfect-wedding.co.za/cape-town-wedding-package-cruise.php

R.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 23:04:57 PM by Rigil Kent » Logged
Faerie
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 07:27:01 AM »

We did the home affairs thingy, no gods mentioned and when you go book you have the option to ask for extras.  Not the most romantic option, but it gets the legalities out of the way and you can then organise a more traditional garden wedding or whatever floats your boat and ask someone special to officiate the "joining" as such, it doesnt need to be a certified magistrate or dominee, but simply someone you (both?) admire that joins your union?

Either way, Congratulations!  Cheesy
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 08:00:42 AM »

I think some sea captains are allowed to perform the ceremony
Ship captains don't have the right to act as marriage officers unless they are also ordained ministers, or are otherwise registered marriage officers ashore.  I sailed with one captain who subsequently swallowed the anchor and became an Anglican priest, but never the other way around.
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DNA
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 09:05:16 AM »

Both my cousin and myself went the route that Faerie suggests. Dealt with the legal aspect with home affairs (in my case we had dinner afterwards with the close family). The only conventionally religious person there (who was a bit unhappy with the situation) was my gran, but she was ok really.

We then arranged a party with all our friends and had a friend do a ceremony (we told him to leave god out of it as he is religious but that wasn't why he was chosen, he's a good speaker and a very close friend).

It was nice and most people preferred it to a religious "wedding" because we kept the ceremony part short and the drinking part long. Smiley
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beLIEf
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 09:15:22 AM »

Thanks for the help and the congrats... I want a ceremony out in the open close to nature somewhere just the legalities etc.. so maybe do the paperwork bit at homeaffairs out the way on the sly and then do the romance bit!  Smiley
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Faerie
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 09:30:00 AM »

on the sly

We only told the family some 5 months down the line.... caused a lot of general offense and upset with the religious lot.  For the S/O and myself, that was romantic in itself, we got to be married without any do-da's and revelled in our "secret".  heh!
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 09:42:54 AM »

Congratulations, beLIEf!  Much happiness to both of you.  IIRC, the topic of non-religious weddings has come up on the forum before with other/different suggestions, so you may want to search for it.



I sailed with one captain who subsequently swallowed the anchor and became an Anglican priest, but never the other way around.
Not to derail the thread, but yes, it’s funny how people often decide that they must follow a “higher calling”.  Much more rare is the individual who chucks the “higher calling” in favour of doing something that’s actually useful.  I suspect that once they’re in it and despite the claimed focus on matters of the hereafter, the temporal fringe benefits accruing to those of the cloth have more to do with it than they’re likely to admit.

'Luthon64
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 09:55:19 AM by Mefiante » Logged
BoogieMonster
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 09:48:47 AM »

A note to the wise: Don't get a preetcher to do the wedding, no matter how much he promises to keep the gawd stuff toned down.

A friend of mine stepped in this trap, made the officiating cloth-wearer promise oh so dearly to keep the religious stuff at bay... and the preeetcher came out swinging for the big G man! It was embarrassingly bad.

Afterwards I went up to my bud and casually poked: "So I thought this was a NON-religious wedding"
He replied: "Yeah, so did I, WTF!"
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cr1t
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 10:18:06 AM »

Now I know there are many on here skeptical of weddings/ marriage but having said yes - very happily, now comes the planning.... obviously there will be no mention of the G word in it - which is where I'm asking for assistance: Does anyone know of anyone who has a marriage license who is preferable non-religious or specialises in those kind of ceremonies? Anyone on here had a non-religious wedding? any links, ideas for reading etc...

My Friends found a marriage officer on gum tree.  And they will do the ceremony around what ever you want. There was nice.
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The Vulcan
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 11:48:20 AM »

If you are going to ask someone to officiate for you anyway, why not just ask that someone to become a marriage officer? All that really needs to be done is getting the right forms from Home Affairs, passing some silly test and voila, oh the tricky bit is you need that person to be some kind of community leader, I don't know who you know, but can you ask this of your local political party leader or something?

I'm not sure of the exact requirements, but if it's really down to getting a bunch of signatures, then why not just ask people on this forum for a couple (how many would be needed and how needed if there's no "head of an organization" I'm quite ignorant of)

Anyway, this should get your mind going a bit, I think, but whichever way you look at it, it makes for interesting discussions.

P.S. The guy on gumtree, does he charge a fee for doing  it? Isn't that totally illegal to charge for the officiating service?
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Faerie
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 11:55:39 AM »

P.S. The guy on gumtree, does he charge a fee for doing  it? Isn't that totally illegal to charge for the officiating service?

Home affairs was for free.  I do recall having to pay the dominee with my first wedding, I gave him a cheque which bounced.... accidently, but I never did redeem the fee if memory serves me right, I was bloody poor.
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cr1t
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 12:32:20 PM »

P.S. The guy on gumtree, does he charge a fee for doing  it? Isn't that totally illegal to charge for the officiating service?

I think it was around R600 maybe. Nope even Pastors and the like get a donation.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 13:03:40 PM »

Home affairs was for free.
Ha! Grin
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beLIEf
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 09:27:16 AM »

on the sly

We only told the family some 5 months down the line.... caused a lot of general offense and upset with the religious lot.  For the S/O and myself, that was romantic in itself, we got to be married without any do-da's and revelled in our "secret".  heh!

That is hilarious! I don't have religious people to worry about - other than the in-laws and they are by now totally used to me! But I have the added thing of being only daughter and only child so it's more the whole ceremony thing I think my mother would be upset!
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Faerie
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2012, 10:16:58 AM »

That is hilarious! I don't have religious people to worry about - other than the in-laws and they are by now totally used to me! But I have the added thing of being only daughter and only child so it's more the whole ceremony thing I think my mother would be upset!

I'm the youngest and only daughter too... upset does not describe the tantrums and general disgust thrown at me when they found out.  My MIL was particularly offended, my S/O is the youngest son and she's been wanting him married off for years, she hinted a couple years ago how cute his niece would look in a little flowergirl's dress blah-blah-blah.  We just sat back and enjoyed the drama.
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Hermes
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 14:56:15 PM »

Congratulations, beLIEf.  I hope your wedding will be great and you guys will be happy.

I do recall having to pay the dominee with my first wedding, I gave him a cheque which bounced.... accidently, but I never did redeem the fee if memory serves me right, I was bloody poor.

And that marriage did not last, right?  I wonder what will happen if your cheque to the undertaker bounces.
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Mefiante
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2012, 15:43:40 PM »

I wonder what will happen if your cheque to the undertaker bounces.
You’ll soon enough be known as a rotten debtor.  Or maybe as an overdue rotter.

'Luthon64
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Faerie
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 15:46:55 PM »

Congratulations, beLIEf.  I hope your wedding will be great and you guys will be happy.

I do recall having to pay the dominee with my first wedding, I gave him a cheque which bounced.... accidently, but I never did redeem the fee if memory serves me right, I was bloody poor.

And that marriage did not last, right?  I wonder what will happen if your cheque to the undertaker bounces.

I paid dearly for that marriage though....  Undecided

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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 21:19:34 PM »

I married twice in the District Commissioner's office in Botswana. It was a completely civil affair and my MIL spent the rest of the day asking if we were really married! It was at 07:30 in the morning to miss the heat! Most of the proceedings consisted of the DC informing us of the prescribed sentence would be if either of us broke various laws linked to marriage in Botswana. Nearly 40 years later we still have not done the blessing thing MIL wanted!
There are many options that exclude the mention of any claimed celestial being!
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beLIEf
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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2012, 22:09:41 PM »

Thanks for the tips and ideas... extra pressure now as it's going to be in 10 weeks when the folks are visiting!
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The Vulcan
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2012, 18:38:19 PM »

Don't know if I congratulated you or not yet, belief, but I hoped everything worked out fine  Grin I recently learned that if you want to become a marriage officer yourself,  you do need to be affiliated with a religious institution here in RSA, so just thought I'd clear up my previous misconceptions, because you know what they teach you in seminary school is always TRUE, right? Embarrassed
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2012, 20:13:57 PM »

Don't know if I congratulated you or not yet, belief, but I hoped everything worked out fine  Grin I recently learned that if you want to become a marriage officer yourself,  you do need to be affiliated with a religious institution here in RSA, so just thought I'd clear up my previous misconceptions, because you know what they teach you in seminary school is always TRUE, right? Embarrassed


So you're telling me my ordination as minister of the Universal life Church will not be recognized here? How dare they!

www.ulc.org

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Jacques
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2012, 11:58:39 AM »

I recently learned that if you want to become a marriage officer yourself,  you do need to be affiliated with a religious institution here in RSA, so just thought I'd clear up my previous misconceptions, because you know what they teach you in seminary school is always TRUE, right? Embarrassed

Yep. And they aren't very forthcoming or helpful about this either. I endorsed my own, as well as two other, nominations to get the study material and write the exam (arguing that the FSI was a "religious" organisation in the sense that it at least engages with religious issues) - it's now been nearly 6 months that the application is on the Minister's desk (who now approves them all personally).
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beLIEf
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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2012, 10:50:45 AM »

O yes thanks all happily married Smiley And the pastor only dropped 1 G- bomb - he was actually announcing he'd never been given 7 pages to read before with no input himself - I was wryly asserting there was a clear reason for that!! Also mananged to escape any of the skoon menses prayers and we happily tucked into our food without any bullshit and then had a right ol jol and will hopefully live happily ever after....
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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2012, 10:52:32 AM »

O yes thanks all happily married Smiley And the pastor only dropped 1 G- bomb - he was actually announcing he'd never been given 7 pages to read before with no input himself - I was wryly asserting there was a clear reason for that!! Also mananged to escape any of the skoon menses prayers and we happily tucked into our food without any bullshit and then had a right ol jol and will hopefully live happily ever after....
Congratulations! and all the best for your future.
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Faerie
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« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2012, 12:26:25 PM »

will hopefully live happily ever after....

Fixed

Congratulations! 

 Grin
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2012, 12:39:43 PM »

... of the skoon menses prayers
Ah, did you snag a boertjie? Can't go wrong there. Geluk ôk. Smiley

Rigil
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2012, 12:51:36 PM »

Congrats. Don't worry about the happily ever after, us heathens have lower divorce rates than the theists.
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Faerie
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« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2012, 13:59:53 PM »

Congrats. Don't worry about the happily ever after, us heathens have lower divorce rates than the theists.

Yeah, weird that...  Evil Must be the devil looking after his own.
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« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2012, 15:30:21 PM »

Congrats. Don't worry about the happily ever after, us heathens have lower divorce rates than the theists.

Yeah, weird that...  Evil Must be the devil looking after his own.

Is there some stats on this please
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2012, 15:45:21 PM »

Heard it a while ago, quick google gave me this:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
Code:
Religion % have been divorced
Jews                   30%
Born-again Christians   27%
Other Christians   24%
Atheists, Agnostics   21%
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beLIEf
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« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2012, 21:02:00 PM »

will hopefully live happily ever after....

Fixed

Congratulations! 

 Grin

Cheesy thanks!!

... of the skoon menses prayers
Ah, did you snag a boertjie? Can't go wrong there. Geluk ôk. Smiley

Rigil

Nope not a boertjie a boesman  Shocked

And those stats make interesting reading... I think it is down to factors such as pressure to get married quickly so as not to "live in sin" before really knowing each other, or getting married because there are little people on the way.. rather than a good few sinful years of living together and really getting to know each other before tying the knot, - if they even bother - which I didn't think I would ever, but v happy I did.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2012, 23:11:17 PM »

... before really knowing each other ...
Oh, that never happens either way. Except for biographical details such as birth marks, favourite colours and hot or cold milk, any aspirations of cracking behavioural patterns, weight fluctuations, and emotional codes soon peter out.  Tongue


Rigil
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« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2012, 07:53:45 AM »


Nope not a boertjie a boesman  Shocked

And those stats make interesting reading... I think it is down to factors such as pressure to get married quickly so as not to "live in sin" before really knowing each other, or getting married because there are little people on the way.. rather than a good few sinful years of living together and really getting to know each other before tying the knot, - if they even bother - which I didn't think I would ever, but v happy I did.

I suspect it has to do that atheists dont feel compelled to live by externally set rules.  We tend to view our partners as exactly that, partners, and dont bow to the traditional wife/husband roles, more communication, more mutual respect (from a woman's point of view, the husband would not dream of telling her what to do and she in turn feeling compelled to do it regardless of her opinion thereof), its probably the communication and mutual regard of each other's opinions that makes the biggest difference. I also suspect we tend to get married later in life due to the shortage of suitable mates and with age comes maturity and wisdom, it rather helps not getting married at 19...
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2012, 10:15:08 AM »

Hey look everyone! it's ANECDOTE time!

I agree with some of the above but maybe I can add...

Me and Majin are both a bit weird. That may or may not be related to our heathen-ness.

The thing is we accept, nay, embrace each other's weirdness. I don't live under the illusion that God created "one true soul-mate" that I'm supposed to find and love. When we have arguments I don't start doubting whether I've found that person dog made for me, or whether they're "still out there" and run away. I know we're just 2 people trying our best to get along and that's bound to fail at certain times, and bound to be great at other times.

Also, I (like to) think we keep our jealousies in check because we understand we are going to be attracted to other people at times, and don't have to feel jealousy/guilty about it, we trust each other enough to know we are faithful (If you ignore the double meaning), because we want to be not because we're being forced to be. Somehow that seems to make a difference.

I guess the theme here is: We don't think this is going to be easy because a magical man set it up all nicely for us. We realise this takes work.
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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2012, 10:23:20 AM »

Hey look everyone! it's ANECDOTE time!

You know Boogie, I just absolutely love your (sarcastic at times) sense of humour!!

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« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2012, 10:40:39 AM »

Hey look everyone! it's ANECDOTE time!
You know Boogie, I just absolutely love your (sarcastic at times) sense of humour!!

Thanks, I've been told it's an acquired taste.
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« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2012, 00:00:30 AM »


Nope not a boertjie a boesman  Shocked

And those stats make interesting reading... I think it is down to factors such as pressure to get married quickly so as not to "live in sin" before really knowing each other, or getting married because there are little people on the way.. rather than a good few sinful years of living together and really getting to know each other before tying the knot, - if they even bother - which I didn't think I would ever, but v happy I did.


I suspect it has to do that atheists dont feel compelled to live by externally set rules.  We tend to view our partners as exactly that, partners, and dont bow to the traditional wife/husband roles, more communication, more mutual respect (from a woman's point of view, the husband would not dream of telling her what to do and she in turn feeling compelled to do it regardless of her opinion thereof), its probably the communication and mutual regard of each other's opinions that makes the biggest difference. I also suspect we tend to get married later in life due to the shortage of suitable mates and with age comes maturity and wisdom, it rather helps not getting married at 19...


Yes totally agree with the lack of gender stereotyping, definitely the communication- yes and from many of the people around me I seem to be at least 10 years older than most that got married religious or not.


 I don't live under the illusion that God created "one true soul-mate" that I'm supposed to find and love. When we have arguments I don't start doubting whether I've found that person dog made for me, or whether they're "still out there" and run away. I know we're just 2 people trying our best to get along and that's bound to fail at certain times, and bound to be great at other times.



Reminds me of this....

Tim Minchin: If I Didn't Have You
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« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2012, 09:35:52 AM »

People sometimes get married for the wrong reasons. Example: marry for money, fame or just for the sake of getting married because the media out there make it look so attractive. The media and social advertisements make it look like it is only one long road of happiness and forever bliss to be married. Romance is enhanced with big diamonds and beautiful thin people making it irresistible not to want the same thing. There is a certain "way" you need to act when married which was developed over the years and carried over by your own parents. People should get married if they love each other and want to share a life together. That is it. No other hidden agendas. They should decide how they will be getting on with their married life without being criticized for their way of life. This also means that you get married the way you want to....having your own way with the ceremony.

The same goes for having children. ALL the adverts on television and media show ONLY happy, content children and their married - almost always married - parents.
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Rigil Kent
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« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2012, 11:27:11 AM »

The media and social advertisements make it look like it is only one long road of happiness and forever bliss to be married.
Well, maybe they are just perpetuating commonly held ideas. We are exposed to the romantic side of getting hitched very early in our lives. How many bed-time stories didn't culminate in the hero and his new bride living happily ever after?

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« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2012, 14:34:56 PM »

O yes thanks all happily married
Congratulations and many happy years together!
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« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2015, 19:58:25 PM »

This could fit into any of several threads.
Andrew Copson sets the record straight about humanism

'Luthon64
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« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2015, 23:21:00 PM »

It all gets relativistic really quickly doesn't it? Yes, what I consider perfectly valid and rational and moral things to do, is indeed what that dude would call "debaucherous". This is a spot of trouble for our ilk, to get the other side to see our point we need to appear not "scary", but religion has nicely defined the "scary" to be us. It's a clever trick, one I almost admire for it's ingenuity, were it not so entirely contrary to free thought and the truth.

It's a slippery slope NON-fallacy. The problem being the slope is not nearly as spike-encrusted as the proponents of it would have one believe. How often do you hear this shit?

Quote from: Upstanding Christian Citizen
If we allow these athiests to run amok, next thing they'll want us accepting gays.

It's an odd sort of argument that builds lies upon truths upon lies. The core premise is that the listener is already biased that some outcome is bad due to a lifetime of beating it into their head. Then you base the argument against atheism on that same shaky ground. Worst part is you can't exactly DENY it. It's true! It's the premise of the outcome being negative that is false.

It's all circular I tell you, circles everywhere.
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