South Africa Flag logo

South African Skeptics

October 17, 2019, 12:47:01 PM
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
Go to mobile page.
News: Follow saskeptics on twitter.
   
   Skeptic Forum Board Index   Help Forum Rules Search GoogleTagged Login Register Chat Blogroll  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic:

Psychometric profile

 (Read 6243 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« on: March 23, 2010, 13:14:45 PM »

I'm an INTJ, scarce enough amongst men 5 - 8% of the population, and only 3% of females fall under this profile. I'm living with an INTJ as well, which is REALLY odd considering the scarcity of this profile.

The profile is indicative of sceptisism and analytical thinking though. Here's a link to an online (shortened) test. I'm curious as to whether there will be more INTJ's on the forum?

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3094



« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 13:22:39 PM »

I typed as INTJ a long time ago. It seems that, however scarce this profile is, I run into INTJ's all the friggin time. Either the stats are wrong, or it's the social circles I frequent. (Offbeat, out of the status-quo types)
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3094



« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 13:23:56 PM »

And this is a better link for that test (includes a description of the test and some guidelines)

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm
Logged
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 13:31:23 PM »

I typed as INTJ a long time ago. It seems that, however scarce this profile is, I run into INTJ's all the friggin time. Either the stats are wrong, or it's the social circles I frequent. (Offbeat, out of the status-quo types)

Probably the social circles we frequent? We're not a very tolerant lot in general and we relate very strongly in the science and IT fields of work. I've never come across another woman though - have you?
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3094



« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 14:18:54 PM »

Not that I know of In Real Life, but I met a few via e-mail.
Logged
Lilli
Sr. Member
****

Skeptical ability: +3/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 435



Lelani Stolp
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 14:27:26 PM »

well... that was fun. I also typed INTJ (and I am also a woman, by the way.) Please explain why you think this is strange (for a woman to match this profile, I mean?)
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3094



« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 14:42:52 PM »

The INTJ women I've talked to cannot conceivably be called (as far as I've been able to judge) "girly girls". Some call them too assertive, too confident (for a woman - yeah whatever), etc. I think this is why people think "can't be many of those around" when in fact there are.

They also don't put as much emphasis on the whole dating/relationship game as most females do (One I chatted to referred to her partner as her "unhusband"). The INTJ profile has things normally associated with a male archetype, and female INTJ's have a hard time not appearing too "male" in our stereotyped world, I think we thusly also have a hard time "imagining" lots of INTJ women, and hence the assumption?

Some of them try to soften the edges, others say screw it and are just themselves. But, they're out there, and I'm thankful for it.

If you want to chat to TONS of other INTJ's, visit the INTJ forums: http://intjforum.com/
(I never go there, it's a bit too busy IMHO)
Logged
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 14:57:51 PM »

well... that was fun. I also typed INTJ (and I am also a woman, by the way.) Please explain why you think this is strange (for a woman to match this profile, I mean?)

Not strange, just unusual, INTJ type is more masculine, far fewer women than men have the interest in science and "how does things work" tendencies that INTJ displays. We do the psychometric testing here on a daily basis, and I've NEVER come across an INTJ woman in my 20 odd years of work. Ok, granted, I work in the banking environment and I'm not the usual type to do this kind of work either.

Do this self-analysis for yourself:

Have you ever taken something apart simply to figure out how it works?
If you come across an interesting machine, have you asked details on how it operates? (e.g. ever seen a laser etching machine? How does it work?)
Can you set up a tv, dvd, surround sound system, decoder and aerial?

Odds are, you can and have done all of the above, and if not, you'll be willing to sit down and figure out how to do it yourself instead of asking someone else to do it for you. You're far more independent than most women, you like being by yourself (well, introverts generally do - obviously), you can hold a conversation, but are bored with "general" conversations (e.g. you know what that idiot husband of mine did now again!)

(I feel like a psychic, throwing odds around here  WTF!!)

Then think about the following:
Do you have many female friends? - You get along with men better than women?
What hobbies interest you? - Your hobbies will unlikely be sewing or scrapbooking - it will lack stimulation, you're more likely interested in painting or creating something pleasing to the eye that involves fine motor skills.

I'm just throwing a couple thoughts out here, it will be interesting to see how much of it I've got right? I purposefully didnt pull out the set profiling (not that I can match you without the percentages, but never mind), I'm thinking of what I found people find odd about me.



Logged
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 14:59:55 PM »

The INTJ women I've talked to cannot conceivably be called (as far as I've been able to judge) "girly girls". Some call them too assertive, too confident (for a woman - yeah whatever), etc. I think this is why people think "can't be many of those around" when in fact there are.

They also don't put as much emphasis on the whole dating/relationship game as most females do (One I chatted to referred to her partner as her "unhusband"). The INTJ profile has things normally associated with a male archetype, and female INTJ's have a hard time not appearing too "male" in our stereotyped world, I think we thusly also have a hard time "imagining" lots of INTJ women, and hence the assumption?

Some of them try to soften the edges, others say screw it and are just themselves. But, they're out there, and I'm thankful for it.


You explained it perfectly!
Logged
GCG
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +8/-4
Offline Offline

Posts: 1829


skeptical mantis is skeptical


adele horn
WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 15:55:06 PM »

i scored INFP, but what faerie pointed out as traits, i tick the boxes.
in general, im at the braai, talking bikes and guns with the guys, and avoid the kitchen at all costs.  yet, i cook like a champion.
i can sow, and will undertake some projects simply cause its too goddamn expensive to have someone else do it.
i like beading and painting.  but i will allso drill a hole, dismantle the washing machine, get on the roof to clean the gutters....
this is not cause im a butch dyke, its cause, well, there's no-one else to do it.  and the men in my life, arent exactly the butch type either.  i veer towards the artsy/nerdy types.
this creates problems in relationships though,  cause a kind of a gender bending occurs, where i can become distant, cold and hard, and the men become needy, pathetic and insecure.  it takes someone with very strong self-esteem to keep up with me. 
i dont need a man to do mow the lawn, or change the plug.  i will do it before he even notices it needs doing.
but im girly-girls as all hell.
eyeliner, stilettos, skirts, the whole schpiel.
so i guess jung hasnt met me yet.
Logged
Jane of the Jungle
Full Member
***

Skeptical ability: +4/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 235



« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 16:02:21 PM »

Also typed INTJ, just couldn't miss this part.....

Quote
This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.

Oh yeah and I'm also Female, makes me wonder how many "non-believers/Atheist" women might be this type?

Quote
Famous people of your particular type 
Isaac Newton, Niels Bohr, C. G. Jung, Michel de Montaigne, Ada Lovelace, ................
.....  Michel Nostradamus
WTF!!
 

« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 16:36:17 PM by Jane of the Jungle » Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3094



« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 16:49:15 PM »

Heh, this is becoming reminiscent of a conversation that appeared on an INTJ mailing list. The topic was: "Why is it that we (INTJ's) often become atheist?". What we're seeing here may be another example of that.
Logged
Mefiante
Defollyant Iconoclast
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +61/-9
Offline Offline

Posts: 3752


In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται


WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 17:42:16 PM »

The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is about as valid as astrology – refer especially to the section “10 Skepticism.”  It’s entertaining to do the test and to compare the results but the MBTI is not a validated scientific or psychological measuring instrument.  Too many uncertainties remain.

Without meaning to brag, our HR department no longer uses this tool because I objected essentially on the above grounds and because it is an added cost that has no obvious benefit other than a few moments of fun.

(ETA: For the record and for what it’s worth, I’m an INTP.)

'Luthon64
Logged
StevoMuso
Stevo Muso
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +4/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 654



« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 18:22:42 PM »

The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is about as valid as astrology – refer especially to the section “10 Skepticism.”  It’s entertaining to do the test and to compare the results but the MBTI is not a validated scientific or psychological measuring instrument.  Too many uncertainties remain.

Without meaning to brag, our HR department no longer uses this tool because I objected essentially on the above grounds and because it is an added cost that has no obvious benefit other than a few moments of fun.

(ETA: For the record and for what it’s worth, I’m an INTP.)

'Luthon64


This sounds right Mefiante. When I did this test (and also scored INTJ BTW) it seemed a little too vague to come to any sound rationally thought-out conclusions. Just a bit of fun like you'd find in You Mag. The psychometric testing I did some years ago involved 5 acquaintances, a comprehensive multi-page questionnaire and an intensive 3-day course. I came out of this test as an "analytical driver" personality type (sure beats being a Leo).
Logged
Lilli
Sr. Member
****

Skeptical ability: +3/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 435



Lelani Stolp
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 07:58:37 AM »

Do this self-analysis for yourself:Have you ever taken something apart simply to figure out how it works?
yes, all the time - often have trouble putting it back together though  Embarrassed
Quote
If you come across an interesting machine, have you asked details on how it operates? (e.g. ever seen a laser etching machine? How does it work?)
Can you set up a tv, dvd, surround sound system, decoder and aerial?
yes of course - and if all else fails: read the instructions
Quote
you'll be willing to sit down and figure out how to do it yourself instead of asking someone else to do it for you.
Yes but thats just because I'm stubborn...
Quote
You're far more independent than most women, you like being by yourself (well, introverts generally do - obviously), you can hold a conversation, but are bored with "general" conversations (e.g. you know what that idiot husband of mine did now again!)
All true. But not all the time - I am also a very social person on occasion (I live in a house with 13 other people, there's always a party, and I'm always a part of it - I guess the insomnia helps me in this regard)
Quote
Do you have many female friends? - You get along with men better than women?
What hobbies interest you?
I have about an equal number of male and female friends - from all walks of life/ 'types'/etc. I do paint, DIY, read, write, visit museums, I like hiking and extreme sports as well (abseiling, rock climbing, horse riding, paragliding etc) yeah, scrap-booking is not really my 'thing'
Does that answer your question(s)? Any more insights? You seem to be pretty good at this  Cheesy
Logged
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 09:10:05 AM »

 Cheesy

Its fun, maybe I should think about becoming a psychic???  Roll Eyes

They do make good money, my mother paid R560 for an hour long session a couple months ago....  Undecided
Logged
Spike
Full Member
***

Skeptical ability: +1/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 183



« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2010, 17:13:19 PM »

I took the quick test and turned out to be a (gasp) INTJ (I previously tested as something else, can't remember what). 

The questions show a remarkable lack of sensitivity for conditions such as AADD/AADHD.  You can argue that the "condition contributes to the personality" but that is not the whole story; not in the lifetime of a specific individual, let alone situations where you compare whole populations.
Logged
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2010, 08:08:43 AM »

ADHD and the rest are conditions, its not related to personality type. In a typical remedial classroom, you'll find a range of personalities with the same condition, you really cannot associate the two at all. And personally speaking, all these conditions are a load of twak anyway, you find a couple kids that are different and now want to shove them into a box so that they can fit together. Its once again society that want conformity. Every single suspected ADD/ADHD child I've come across in the last odd 20 years (and it includes my own two sons)were children that tested highly intelligent in the more obscure areas. Some were at 5 years old on a 12 year old's level of Mathematical ability, other's were language orientated, ALL of them found studying set work completely and utterly boring and uninteresting, which is what causes the problems at school. None of them were "slow" or "stupid" or any of the popular labels, and all of them were considered a "problem" simply because they couldnt (wouldnt) conform.

Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3094



« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2010, 09:06:23 AM »

Long, personal story but, let's say someone close to me was almost (by the skin of his teeth) sent to a remedial school before it was discovered he was actually highly gifted and just couldn't get along with his teacher.

Today he has a master's degree. Not bad for a kid who "belonged in a special school".

There's a rant by Doug Stanhope on the subject as well (one I couldn't find in text on google), I paraphrase it very loosely for you:

"No I don't have ADD! I'm thinking! It's what makes me special! [Speaking as joe soap counting papers] I alphabetize insurance forms for a living and I found that I just couldn't stay focussed on my job during the workday, but then my doctor prescribed me adderall and now I can just fly through my work completely oblivious of my totally meaningless and pointless life."

He also goes on at length about kids just being bored at school, school is just boring, period.  Wink
Logged
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2010, 09:33:03 AM »

Long, personal story but, let's say someone close to me was almost (by the skin of his teeth) sent to a remedial school before it was discovered he was actually highly gifted and just couldn't get along with his teacher.

Today he has a master's degree. Not bad for a kid who "belonged in a special school".
This was the case with my eldest, I was "professionally" advised that he would do better in a remedial school. I decided to put the decision into his own hands - I told my 8 year old the harsh truth about adults thinking he's not capable and that the choice is his, does he want to prove them wrong or go to a remedial school that would make things easier. He chose the flip the bird to the adults... He's in grade 11 now, gets honours for his science, math, accountancy and IT, he's still horrible in his languages but he passes. He plans to become a chartered accountant.

Quote
There's a rant by Doug Stanhope on the subject as well (one I couldn't find in text on google), I paraphrase it very loosely for you:

"No I don't have ADD! I'm thinking! It's what makes me special! [Speaking as joe soap counting papers] I alphabetize insurance forms for a living and I found that I just couldn't stay focussed on my job during the workday, but then my doctor prescribed me adderall and now I can just fly through my work completely oblivious of my totally meaningless and pointless life."

My youngest is on Ritalin, but instead of taking the full dosage that was prescribed, he takes only half in the mornings to get him through the first 4/5 hours of school, its entirely up to him whether he wants to take it or not (he's 14 and old enough to decide whether he needs it or not).

Quote
He also goes on at length about kids just being bored at school, school is just boring, period.  Wink

School IS boring, especially if its not adressing your interests or passions. And if you go look at the curriculum that's currently being presented, you'd be horrified.....
Logged
BoogieMonster
NP complete
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +19/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3094



« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2010, 11:49:33 AM »

This may sound biased of me but, in school I always had good grades (not that I tried, I just found school easy). But I elected to take "technical drawing" as I was still on the fence about becoming an architect (which I didn't in the end). However there was a limited number of people taking that course and most of them were of the "woodworking" persuasion. Added that our school devided classes up by "main subjects" and this was the class I was put in. ie: IMHO, no offense, etc.... the slower class.

My word this was a boooring experience.... english class was my biggest trial: People struggling for minutes to finish reading a single sentence.... for hours, and hours...... zzzzzzzzzz..... and BOOM! Teacher is standing over me pissed off that I'm not paying attention/sleeping. Undecided School sucks.
Logged
Lilli
Sr. Member
****

Skeptical ability: +3/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 435



Lelani Stolp
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2010, 12:08:03 PM »

I was in an Afrikaans high school for matric (so I had to sit through English second language) I only attended english class about 5 times during my matric year, (just to get the test dates etc), sat quietly in the back, always scored well on the tests, assignments were always in on time, and nobody asked where I was when I was supposed to be in the frustrating English second language class, because nobody noticed that i was supposed to be there in the first place. If my grades had slipped, they would have checked up on me. School only sucks if you actually attend, and if you dont have to attend class in order to get good marks, I say: spare everyone the drama and just stay away...
Logged
Faerie
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +10/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112



« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2010, 12:14:22 PM »

The problem with these "conditions" and labels that goes with them, is that by the time the kid gets to high school, he has heard so many times that he's not on par, he's slow, he underperforms, blah,blah,blah. Its to be expected that they then play that role to perfection.

I was TOLD that my 8 year old will become rebellious with low self esteem and that I'm doing him a disservice. I in turn flipped my own bird to the powers that be and started praising the kid on everything he was brilliant in - and there was (is) a lot. He's got an absolute passion for archeology and is an avid stargazer, stuff that he taught himself, with books I bought for him simply because he showed an interest. We project onto our kids, and what we expect is what we will get. I really dont understand why adults cannot see this?
Logged
Peter Grant
Hero Member
*****

Skeptical ability: +5/-9
Offline Offline

Posts: 845


a fully caused agent


AtheistStoned AtheistStoned
WWW
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2010, 18:03:52 PM »

School was stupid. Most of my teachers were incredibly dumb and the textbooks were full of blatant mistakes. I really hated it. Looking back on it, I really wish I'd been high at the time.

I'm a ENTP BTW
Logged
Spike
Full Member
***

Skeptical ability: +1/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 183



« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 21:13:04 PM »

Faerie, you state that
Quote
ADHD and the rest are conditions, its not related to personality type.
  Yes, I did mention that right at the start:
Quote
of sensitivity for conditions such as AADD/AADHD.

You go on to mention:
Quote
In a typical remedial classroom, you'll find a range of personalities with the same condition, you really cannot associate the two at all.

Superficially your observation may appear to be correct.  However, there are 6 main types (and a host of subtypes) of this condition.  Observation by an uninformed bystander can reveal differences in activity types/levels, behavioural differences etc. but it can not objectively distinguish between personality types.  Common mistakes include confusing hyperactives with "outgoing" and inattentives with "withdrawn" personalities.

Your further comment
Quote
And personally speaking, all these conditions are a load of twak anyway, you find a couple kids that are different and now want to shove them into a box so that they can fit together. Its once again society that want conformity.
is not only insulting to ADDers but also shows the depth of your ignorance about a physiological condition which you as HR practitioner should take great care to hide.

Your comment that
Quote
Every single suspected ADD/ADHD child I've come across in the last odd 20 years (and it includes my own two sons)were children that tested highly intelligent in the more obscure areas.
reveals that you attach the "stigma" of a lower intelligence to ADDers, although you do go on to give a rather accurate description of the effect of the condition on individuals:
Quote
ALL of them found studying set work completely and utterly boring and uninteresting, which is what causes the problems at school.
  Alas, you then blithely pronounce that
Quote
None of them were "slow" or "stupid"
again proclaiming your bias towards the general IQ-level of ADDers.  To your credit you end the paragraph with another unexpectedly accurate insight, that
Quote
all of them were considered a "problem" simply because they couldnt (wouldnt) conform.

Perhaps your bias can be attributed to the "stigma" you (and others in this string) attach to remedial schools. 
As a matter of fact, very few ADDers attend remedial school, the vast majority attend "normal" school, with or without medication and/or occupational therapy. 

Your next observation
Quote
The problem with these "conditions" and labels that goes with them, is that by the time the kid gets to high school, he has heard so many times that he's not on par, he's slow, he underperforms, blah,blah,blah. Its to be expected that they then play that role to perfection.
is bereft of logic.  Given the sometimes indescribable relief from symptoms that is the result of effective medication, most ADDers lose the labels in no time at all.  In addition, the parent and/or ADDer's own growing insight of the condition will enable them to deal with specific problems in a systematic, efficient way.





 
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  


 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Page created in 0.742 seconds with 23 sceptic queries.
Google visited last this page February 13, 2019, 12:04:26 PM
Privacy Policy