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The little things that irk us so

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Spike
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« Reply #600 on: August 02, 2017, 12:04:44 PM »

ACDSee

Thanks for that, I agree the windows 'photo viewer' is slow and a pain in the whatsit.  I don't even use the Office suite because I lost my l$g$t$m$t$ pa$d copy product key and when I changed computers I discovered I'd have to pay $10 a month for the rest of my life. Only payable with a credit card, mind you, no Paypal option so they can $$ck my $$$$. I now use Libre Office (donations optional) because I only need basic word processing and the odd spreadsheet.

The Open Text works very well, except for one instance when it allegedly rendered some chemical symbols incorrectly in the final document. This allegedly occurred when I opened and edited a Word doc with Open text and then saved the result back to Word. I haven't been able to duplicate this so I can't report it as a bug. It was probably nonsense.  I'd be happy to hear from others about their experiences with ODT's?
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Mefiante
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« Reply #601 on: August 02, 2017, 12:08:11 PM »

Windows 10's picture viewer.



Why can't I just have the old Windows one back?
Maybe this will help you.  If you did a clean install of Win10 (rather than an upgrade from an earlier Win7 or 8 ), it involves a registry hack.  You can export the registry key’s current contents (i.e., before you make any changes) in case things go awry with the hack and you need to revert to those current settings.

'Luthon64
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Spike
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« Reply #602 on: August 02, 2017, 13:16:21 PM »

Meh. I can't upload pics at all.  I get "upload folder is full'. Its not cache.
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brianvds
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« Reply #603 on: August 02, 2017, 14:34:29 PM »

Windows 10's picture viewer.



Why can't I just have the old Windows one back?
Maybe this will help you.  If you did a clean install of Win10 (rather than an upgrade from an earlier Win7 or 8 ), it involves a registry hack.  You can export the registry key’s current contents (i.e., before you make any changes) in case things go awry with the hack and you need to revert to those current settings.

'Luthon64

I got Windows 10 with the laptop I'm using. Perhaps I can do the hack, perhaps not. I'm reluctant to try and end up messing it up even further. It just adds to the sheer irksomeness that one has to hack one's own computer to get back a piece of software that worked perfectly fine.
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BoogieMonster
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« Reply #604 on: August 02, 2017, 14:46:05 PM »


Perhaps you missed the part where I said it's not so good anymore.
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brianvds
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« Reply #605 on: August 02, 2017, 14:50:59 PM »

Thanks for that, I agree the windows 'photo viewer' is slow and a pain in the whatsit.  I don't even use the Office suite because I lost my l$g$t$m$t$ pa$d copy product key and when I changed computers I discovered I'd have to pay $10 a month for the rest of my life. Only payable with a credit card, mind you, no Paypal option so they can $$ck my $$$$. I now use Libre Office (donations optional) because I only need basic word processing and the odd spreadsheet.

Reminds me of more irksomosity. I'm trying to get a bit "out there" as artist, so I signed up at Fine Art America, where you can put up your work for free. As an added bonus, they have a merchandise option: they can print your pictures on everything from pillow slips to coffee mugs, and you get commission. But with one catch: they only pay out via PayPal.

In South Africa, only one bank has a deal with PayPal to receive money (apparently it's perfectly easy to send money out of the country through PayPal, but receiving is another matter altogether.) So I go to FNB and explain my situation: at the moment my income is more or less at pauper level, but I'm hoping to receive some through PayPal, so can I open a PayPal-compatible account? No problem! Account is opened literally within minutes; I just had to provide an ID and proof of residence.

Then it turns out it's not that simple: I also need to apply for a credit card. And for that, I have to provide reams and reams and reams of documentation. Among other things, three months worth of bank statements. Easy enough; I go online, get a PDF of the statement and send it along, only to receive an e-mail that the statement is outdated. So how the hell do I get an up to date one then, if the one dated the day I sent it is outdated!?

But that's the least of the problems: for the credit card I have to get a proof of income from SARS (because I am basically self-employed). But I have dropped off SARS' records when my income dipped below the minimum taxable amount a year or two ago, so to get anything out of them now will probably take a titanic effort of standing in long queues. And once I do have such a statement, in all probability FNB will decline the credit card anyway because I'm not rich and thus a credit risk. Despite the fact that I explained at great lengths to the folks at the bank that I do not want to buy anything on credit; I just need it to receive money because that's how PayPal works. (And apparently, even if you have a credit card, you have to jump through fiery hoops to get it connected to your bank account).

Summary: after days of bureaucratic struggles, it looks like I have been wasting my time, all because the frickin' consultant at the FNB branch was so eager to open an account that he didn't tell me about the fine print. Put a different way, they suck you in, and then it turns out they have actually not told you everything, and the goal posts get shifted ever further and further.

They can go insert their credit card somewhere; I'll do without it.

And why do I get this feeling that all of this is once again partly because of government regulations? Why is it apparently ridiculously easy to use PayPal to send money out of the country, but almost impossible to use it to bring dollars and euros into the country?
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Spike
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« Reply #606 on: August 02, 2017, 15:36:15 PM »

I also need to apply for a credit card.

No, not at all. 

Go to a different branch or speak to the manager - someone is trying to earn a commission.  All you need is the stock-standard basic FNB 'Easy' account. They will issue you with a Visa debit card (it says "Cheque" on the card) - it operates with a pin as normal.  That is all you need. 

I can offer you my most sincere and heartfelt condolences on this process, I had to go through it too. 
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Spike
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« Reply #607 on: August 02, 2017, 15:38:12 PM »

Send me a copy of the back and front of the card they gave you - I'll tell you if it is the right one  Grin Grin Grin

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brianvds
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« Reply #608 on: August 02, 2017, 16:36:16 PM »

I also need to apply for a credit card.

No, not at all. 

Go to a different branch or speak to the manager - someone is trying to earn a commission.  All you need is the stock-standard basic FNB 'Easy' account. They will issue you with a Visa debit card (it says "Cheque" on the card) - it operates with a pin as normal.  That is all you need. 

I can offer you my most sincere and heartfelt condolences on this process, I had to go through it too. 

You're telling me PayPal will accept that? Because it's not just FNB that will have to be happy; PayPal will have to accept it too. Oh, and it WAS the manager I spoke to. I am increasingly un-amused at a bank that will go to such lengths to cheat its own customers.

In the meantime they let me know to come pick up my ATM card. I did so, and stupidly just stuffed the envelope in my bag without checking. Now I noticed it's not mine; it has been issued to someone with my surname. Van der Spuy is not THAT common a surname, so what are the fucking chances, I ask you, that both me and one Philip van der Spuy will open an account at the same small branch at the same time, so that the idiot personnel can get confused with our very Dutch surnames?

So tomorrow, instead of finally getting back to painting as I planned, I'll have to get back to the bank once again.
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Spike
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« Reply #609 on: August 02, 2017, 17:38:20 PM »

You're telling me PayPal will accept that?

Yes. If I remember correctly, you have to activate your online banking profile and the card, separately, using the internet and an ATM during the process, plus verify bank-to-paypal and paypal-to-bank. They have courtesy officers in each branch to help with the first two because it's such a rigmarole.  

STEPS:
1. Activate your online profile before you leave the bank. You can do it on the bank's computer - they have one or two in the lobby for this purpose. You'll need to trust a little, which I don't usually do. Tip: Take along your laptop and 3G stick, armed with VPN and anti-virus. Kaspersky gives a lot of warnings about 'suspicious activity' but since both parties 'know where I live' and everything else about me, my Russian bear is welcome to share. I keep the account empty, anyway.

2. Deposit R50 (I think that's the minimum to open the account, anyway?)

3. You have to activate the card at the ATM. Stay close to the bank until after the next step.

4. Once the profile/card has been activated, log in to PayPal and add the card details. Paypal will verify the card details by deducting a small amount (I think it's $1) from the card. This transaction gets reversed almost instantly.

5. Log in to FNB, find the VERY confusing PayPal function and verify. Log into your account, click Forex (top menu) then hunt for the invisible side panel on the new pop-up. Now you must verify your Paypal account - log in to Paypal directly from the FNB page. The verification is also almost instantaneous.

6. Now the fun starts with getting the $ converted to ZAR. You can't transfer from Paypal to your bank account - only US citizens can do that. Just log into FNB - Forex -
 pop-up menu - transfer from Paypal. They'll give you a quote, you accept (no choice there, unless you want to wait for zuma to drop the ZAR a little more), complete an online form and it's done.  Timing can be important, it looks like 08h00 is the cut-off for the day's transactions so if you 'sell' over the weekend or early Monday morning, you could have the ZAR by 16h00 on Wednesday. This is an exception, it's usually in by Thursday noon. I've found that the later in the week I buy, the longer it takes but it's almost always 5 working days.

Please don't be offended by the detailed instructions in my post, but it was such a f$king drama for me that I'm happy to spare someone else the suffering and numerous trips to the bank Lips Sealed

PS. When they start talking about Balance of Payment (BOP) codes - if it is for art, I suspect you'll use 201 - Rights obtained for licences to reproduce and/or distribute, or you could use 204 Rights assigned for using copyrights. If in doubt, use 401 - Gift.  Here's a list https://www.rmbprivatebank.com/downloads/RMBPrivateBank/SARB_BoP_Codes_for_Inwards_Transactions.pdf
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 18:02:06 PM by Spike » Logged
brianvds
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« Reply #610 on: August 03, 2017, 03:29:14 AM »


Yes. If I remember correctly, you have to activate your online banking profile and the card, separately, using the internet and an ATM during the process, plus verify bank-to-paypal and paypal-to-bank. They have courtesy officers in each branch to help with the first two because it's such a rigmarole.  

Thanks for the detailed instructions! Some follow-up questions though.

Quote
STEPS:
1. Activate your online profile before you leave the bank. You can do it on the bank's computer - they have one or two in the lobby for this purpose. You'll need to trust a little, which I don't usually do. Tip: Take along your laptop and 3G stick, armed with VPN and anti-virus. Kaspersky gives a lot of warnings about 'suspicious activity' but since both parties 'know where I live' and everything else about me, my Russian bear is welcome to share. I keep the account empty, anyway.

In the case of this branch, they told me their lobby computers don't connect to the outside web. Why is it so important that I activate my online profile right there and then? I had no trouble doing it from home with the existing account they sold me. And why do I need to take my laptop with, if I am going to be using their computer?

Quote
4. Once the profile/card has been activated, log in to PayPal and add the card details. Paypal will verify the card details by deducting a small amount (I think it's $1) from the card. This transaction gets reversed almost instantly.

Okay. They did tell me about that. But my confusion grows and grows, because I am pretty banking illiterate. On this page:

https://www.fnb.co.za/downloads/PAYPAL-quick-guide-FNB.pdf

they say explicitly that a South African debit card cannot be used. I'll need a credit card or something called a cheque card. I did not know what a cheque card even is or that there was such a thing. So now I don't know what it is that the branch is trying to sell me here. I keep on getting e-mail from FNB about my credit card application, so I must assume I unwittingly applied for one. Or something.

The account I opened costs R100 per month to keep open too, but my impression (based on the above online document) is that I will need it. They state explicitly that a common debit card will not work.

EDIT: On Paypal's website I now see something that goes some way towards clearing up the above confusion. I quote: "Debit Cards (also called check cards, ATM cards, or banking cards) are accepted if they have a Visa or MasterCard logo. Enter your card number without spaces or dashes."

So a check card and a debit card are the same thing, but I will have to make sure they have the Visa or Mastercard logo.

Quote
5. Log in to FNB, find the VERY confusing PayPal function and verify. Log into your account, click Forex (top menu) then hunt for the invisible side panel on the new pop-up. Now you must verify your Paypal account - log in to Paypal directly from the FNB page. The verification is also almost instantaneous.

Yes, I have seen that page. Indeed a bit confusing, though I think I'll manage.

Quote
6. Now the fun starts with getting the $ converted to ZAR. You can't transfer from Paypal to your bank account - only US citizens can do that. Just log into FNB - Forex -
 pop-up menu - transfer from Paypal. They'll give you a quote, you accept (no choice there, unless you want to wait for zuma to drop the ZAR a little more), complete an online form and it's done.  Timing can be important, it looks like 08h00 is the cut-off for the day's transactions so if you 'sell' over the weekend or early Monday morning, you could have the ZAR by 16h00 on Wednesday. This is an exception, it's usually in by Thursday noon. I've found that the later in the week I buy, the longer it takes but it's almost always 5 working days.

Well, waiting a few days is not a problem at all, but the above confuses me a bit: you say that I cannot transfer from Paypal to my account, and then you go on to give instructions on how to do it anyway?

Quote
Please don't be offended by the detailed instructions in my post, but it was such a f$king drama for me that I'm happy to spare someone else the suffering and numerous trips to the bank Lips Sealed

Not at all - as you can see, I can do with even more details. :-)

Quote
PS. When they start talking about Balance of Payment (BOP) codes - if it is for art, I suspect you'll use 201 - Rights obtained for licences to reproduce and/or distribute, or you could use 204 Rights assigned for using copyrights. If in doubt, use 401 - Gift.  Here's a list https://www.rmbprivatebank.com/downloads/RMBPrivateBank/SARB_BoP_Codes_for_Inwards_Transactions.pdf


The above is complete Greek to me, but I'll worry about that if I ever get to that point... :-)
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Mefiante
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« Reply #611 on: August 03, 2017, 06:17:35 AM »

I did not know what a cheque card even is or that there was such a thing.
It’s just like a credit card, except that the available “credit” limit is whatever funds are available in your current account, including any overdraft facility you may have.  Like a credit card, a cheque card has a 16-digit number, a security code on the back, transactions facilitated by Visa or MasterCard, and can be used for purchases in exactly the same way as a credit card, but it’s not an account separate from your current account.  In fact, transaction fees using the cheque card are significantly lower than using the debit card linked to the same account.  A cheque card is a good way to enforce spending discipline.

'Luthon64
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brianvds
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« Reply #612 on: August 03, 2017, 07:20:56 AM »

I did not know what a cheque card even is or that there was such a thing.
It’s just like a credit card, except that the available “credit” limit is whatever funds are available in your current account, including any overdraft facility you may have.  Like a credit card, a cheque card has a 16-digit number, a security code on the back, transactions facilitated by Visa or MasterCard, and can be used for purchases in exactly the same way as a credit card, but it’s not an account separate from your current account.  In fact, transaction fees using the cheque card are significantly lower than using the debit card linked to the same account.  A cheque card is a good way to enforce spending discipline.

'Luthon64

Okay, that clears up some of the confusion. I don't want a credit card at all if I can help it. I have never bought anything on credit and never will. The only reason I bothered at all is because I was under the impression that I would need a credit card for the Paypal thing, but I now suspect they were simply lying to me.
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brianvds
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« Reply #613 on: August 03, 2017, 09:49:04 AM »

Right, I went to pick up the correct card this morning (they were very apologetic about having given me the wrong card - "Eish, that other guy he was very angry," said the poor clerk), so I went to PayPal to get the thing going. This is what I got:



So apparently it will still take a few days, but it looks like there is at least some progress...
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Spike
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« Reply #614 on: August 03, 2017, 10:20:51 AM »

In the case of this branch, they told me their lobby computers don't connect to the outside web. Why is it so important that I activate my online profile right there and then? I had no trouble doing it from home with the existing account they sold me. And why do I need to take my laptop with, if I am going to be using their computer?
I suggested that you take along your laptop in case you don't trust the lobby computers (keystroke logging - likely in a small branch with such unhelpful and ignorant staff) so you can use your own trusted computer, or in case they come up with some other excuse like 'it doesn't connect to the outside web.'  My point was - do not leave the bank until both card and online banking profile has been verified unless you want to get home and find that something ELSE is wrong and you need to go back again.

So apparently it will still take a few days, but it looks like there is at least some progress...
Paypal is done and dusted, you have to confirm this transaction from your bank account side within 2-3 days. After you do confirm your card on FNB, you can transact immediately.

The account I opened costs R100 per month to keep open too, but my impression (based on the above online document) is that I will need it. They state explicitly that a common debit card will not work.

If you are happy with paying the bank R100+ per month just to transfer a few $, yes, but you really only need the "FNB Easy" account which is free with a R5 transaction fee (it may be more, now) or R50 flat fee per month.

Well, waiting a few days is not a problem at all, but the above confuses me a bit: you say that I cannot transfer from Paypal to my account, and then you go on to give instructions on how to do it anyway?

It's not a 'transfer', it's a forex transaction. You have to sell your dollars to FNB, who will graciously provide you with their collusion-based deflated buyer's rate minus their hard-earned commission for performing such an arduous scam and in exchange, pay a few rands into your over-priced bank account.

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