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 11 
 on: August 03, 2017, 14:29:26 PM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by Spike
Makes me feel I live in some ignorant little backwater.

But... we do. Though I must say, I think the US is catching up fast. Or slipping down rapidly.

 12 
 on: August 03, 2017, 13:00:36 PM 
Started by Hermes - Last post by BoogieMonster
Someone was shot with the starting pistol at an athletics competition; The police suspect it could be race related.

 13 
 on: August 03, 2017, 10:41:15 AM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by brianvds
Well, there I understand it better now; thanks for all the input. Let's see if the thing will work.

It does frustrate me that South Africa seems to be so far behind the rest of the world when it comes to certain things (even though apparently our banking industry is otherwise pretty good by world standards). Makes me feel I live in some ignorant little backwater.

 14 
 on: August 03, 2017, 10:40:00 AM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by Mefiante
You have to sell your dollars to FNB, who will graciously provide you with their collusion-based deflated buyer's rate minus their hard-earned commission for performing such an arduous scam…
Yup, that’s SA forex trade in a calloused nutshell:  A scam as usurious as it is exploitative, and as only faceless financial disservice providers are capable of concocting.

'Luthon64

 15 
 on: August 03, 2017, 10:20:51 AM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by Spike
In the case of this branch, they told me their lobby computers don't connect to the outside web. Why is it so important that I activate my online profile right there and then? I had no trouble doing it from home with the existing account they sold me. And why do I need to take my laptop with, if I am going to be using their computer?
I suggested that you take along your laptop in case you don't trust the lobby computers (keystroke logging - likely in a small branch with such unhelpful and ignorant staff) so you can use your own trusted computer, or in case they come up with some other excuse like 'it doesn't connect to the outside web.'  My point was - do not leave the bank until both card and online banking profile has been verified unless you want to get home and find that something ELSE is wrong and you need to go back again.

So apparently it will still take a few days, but it looks like there is at least some progress...
Paypal is done and dusted, you have to confirm this transaction from your bank account side within 2-3 days. After you do confirm your card on FNB, you can transact immediately.

The account I opened costs R100 per month to keep open too, but my impression (based on the above online document) is that I will need it. They state explicitly that a common debit card will not work.

If you are happy with paying the bank R100+ per month just to transfer a few $, yes, but you really only need the "FNB Easy" account which is free with a R5 transaction fee (it may be more, now) or R50 flat fee per month.

Well, waiting a few days is not a problem at all, but the above confuses me a bit: you say that I cannot transfer from Paypal to my account, and then you go on to give instructions on how to do it anyway?

It's not a 'transfer', it's a forex transaction. You have to sell your dollars to FNB, who will graciously provide you with their collusion-based deflated buyer's rate minus their hard-earned commission for performing such an arduous scam and in exchange, pay a few rands into your over-priced bank account.


 16 
 on: August 03, 2017, 09:49:04 AM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by brianvds
Right, I went to pick up the correct card this morning (they were very apologetic about having given me the wrong card - "Eish, that other guy he was very angry," said the poor clerk), so I went to PayPal to get the thing going. This is what I got:



So apparently it will still take a few days, but it looks like there is at least some progress...

 17 
 on: August 03, 2017, 07:20:56 AM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by brianvds
I did not know what a cheque card even is or that there was such a thing.
It’s just like a credit card, except that the available “credit” limit is whatever funds are available in your current account, including any overdraft facility you may have.  Like a credit card, a cheque card has a 16-digit number, a security code on the back, transactions facilitated by Visa or MasterCard, and can be used for purchases in exactly the same way as a credit card, but it’s not an account separate from your current account.  In fact, transaction fees using the cheque card are significantly lower than using the debit card linked to the same account.  A cheque card is a good way to enforce spending discipline.

'Luthon64

Okay, that clears up some of the confusion. I don't want a credit card at all if I can help it. I have never bought anything on credit and never will. The only reason I bothered at all is because I was under the impression that I would need a credit card for the Paypal thing, but I now suspect they were simply lying to me.

 18 
 on: August 03, 2017, 06:17:35 AM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by Mefiante
I did not know what a cheque card even is or that there was such a thing.
It’s just like a credit card, except that the available “credit” limit is whatever funds are available in your current account, including any overdraft facility you may have.  Like a credit card, a cheque card has a 16-digit number, a security code on the back, transactions facilitated by Visa or MasterCard, and can be used for purchases in exactly the same way as a credit card, but it’s not an account separate from your current account.  In fact, transaction fees using the cheque card are significantly lower than using the debit card linked to the same account.  A cheque card is a good way to enforce spending discipline.

'Luthon64

 19 
 on: August 03, 2017, 03:29:14 AM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by brianvds

Yes. If I remember correctly, you have to activate your online banking profile and the card, separately, using the internet and an ATM during the process, plus verify bank-to-paypal and paypal-to-bank. They have courtesy officers in each branch to help with the first two because it's such a rigmarole.  

Thanks for the detailed instructions! Some follow-up questions though.

Quote
STEPS:
1. Activate your online profile before you leave the bank. You can do it on the bank's computer - they have one or two in the lobby for this purpose. You'll need to trust a little, which I don't usually do. Tip: Take along your laptop and 3G stick, armed with VPN and anti-virus. Kaspersky gives a lot of warnings about 'suspicious activity' but since both parties 'know where I live' and everything else about me, my Russian bear is welcome to share. I keep the account empty, anyway.

In the case of this branch, they told me their lobby computers don't connect to the outside web. Why is it so important that I activate my online profile right there and then? I had no trouble doing it from home with the existing account they sold me. And why do I need to take my laptop with, if I am going to be using their computer?

Quote
4. Once the profile/card has been activated, log in to PayPal and add the card details. Paypal will verify the card details by deducting a small amount (I think it's $1) from the card. This transaction gets reversed almost instantly.

Okay. They did tell me about that. But my confusion grows and grows, because I am pretty banking illiterate. On this page:

https://www.fnb.co.za/downloads/PAYPAL-quick-guide-FNB.pdf

they say explicitly that a South African debit card cannot be used. I'll need a credit card or something called a cheque card. I did not know what a cheque card even is or that there was such a thing. So now I don't know what it is that the branch is trying to sell me here. I keep on getting e-mail from FNB about my credit card application, so I must assume I unwittingly applied for one. Or something.

The account I opened costs R100 per month to keep open too, but my impression (based on the above online document) is that I will need it. They state explicitly that a common debit card will not work.

EDIT: On Paypal's website I now see something that goes some way towards clearing up the above confusion. I quote: "Debit Cards (also called check cards, ATM cards, or banking cards) are accepted if they have a Visa or MasterCard logo. Enter your card number without spaces or dashes."

So a check card and a debit card are the same thing, but I will have to make sure they have the Visa or Mastercard logo.

Quote
5. Log in to FNB, find the VERY confusing PayPal function and verify. Log into your account, click Forex (top menu) then hunt for the invisible side panel on the new pop-up. Now you must verify your Paypal account - log in to Paypal directly from the FNB page. The verification is also almost instantaneous.

Yes, I have seen that page. Indeed a bit confusing, though I think I'll manage.

Quote
6. Now the fun starts with getting the $ converted to ZAR. You can't transfer from Paypal to your bank account - only US citizens can do that. Just log into FNB - Forex -
 pop-up menu - transfer from Paypal. They'll give you a quote, you accept (no choice there, unless you want to wait for zuma to drop the ZAR a little more), complete an online form and it's done.  Timing can be important, it looks like 08h00 is the cut-off for the day's transactions so if you 'sell' over the weekend or early Monday morning, you could have the ZAR by 16h00 on Wednesday. This is an exception, it's usually in by Thursday noon. I've found that the later in the week I buy, the longer it takes but it's almost always 5 working days.

Well, waiting a few days is not a problem at all, but the above confuses me a bit: you say that I cannot transfer from Paypal to my account, and then you go on to give instructions on how to do it anyway?

Quote
Please don't be offended by the detailed instructions in my post, but it was such a f$king drama for me that I'm happy to spare someone else the suffering and numerous trips to the bank Lips Sealed

Not at all - as you can see, I can do with even more details. :-)

Quote
PS. When they start talking about Balance of Payment (BOP) codes - if it is for art, I suspect you'll use 201 - Rights obtained for licences to reproduce and/or distribute, or you could use 204 Rights assigned for using copyrights. If in doubt, use 401 - Gift.  Here's a list https://www.rmbprivatebank.com/downloads/RMBPrivateBank/SARB_BoP_Codes_for_Inwards_Transactions.pdf


The above is complete Greek to me, but I'll worry about that if I ever get to that point... :-)

 20 
 on: August 02, 2017, 17:38:20 PM 
Started by Rigil Kent - Last post by Spike
You're telling me PayPal will accept that?

Yes. If I remember correctly, you have to activate your online banking profile and the card, separately, using the internet and an ATM during the process, plus verify bank-to-paypal and paypal-to-bank. They have courtesy officers in each branch to help with the first two because it's such a rigmarole.  

STEPS:
1. Activate your online profile before you leave the bank. You can do it on the bank's computer - they have one or two in the lobby for this purpose. You'll need to trust a little, which I don't usually do. Tip: Take along your laptop and 3G stick, armed with VPN and anti-virus. Kaspersky gives a lot of warnings about 'suspicious activity' but since both parties 'know where I live' and everything else about me, my Russian bear is welcome to share. I keep the account empty, anyway.

2. Deposit R50 (I think that's the minimum to open the account, anyway?)

3. You have to activate the card at the ATM. Stay close to the bank until after the next step.

4. Once the profile/card has been activated, log in to PayPal and add the card details. Paypal will verify the card details by deducting a small amount (I think it's $1) from the card. This transaction gets reversed almost instantly.

5. Log in to FNB, find the VERY confusing PayPal function and verify. Log into your account, click Forex (top menu) then hunt for the invisible side panel on the new pop-up. Now you must verify your Paypal account - log in to Paypal directly from the FNB page. The verification is also almost instantaneous.

6. Now the fun starts with getting the $ converted to ZAR. You can't transfer from Paypal to your bank account - only US citizens can do that. Just log into FNB - Forex -
 pop-up menu - transfer from Paypal. They'll give you a quote, you accept (no choice there, unless you want to wait for zuma to drop the ZAR a little more), complete an online form and it's done.  Timing can be important, it looks like 08h00 is the cut-off for the day's transactions so if you 'sell' over the weekend or early Monday morning, you could have the ZAR by 16h00 on Wednesday. This is an exception, it's usually in by Thursday noon. I've found that the later in the week I buy, the longer it takes but it's almost always 5 working days.

Please don't be offended by the detailed instructions in my post, but it was such a f$king drama for me that I'm happy to spare someone else the suffering and numerous trips to the bank Lips Sealed

PS. When they start talking about Balance of Payment (BOP) codes - if it is for art, I suspect you'll use 201 - Rights obtained for licences to reproduce and/or distribute, or you could use 204 Rights assigned for using copyrights. If in doubt, use 401 - Gift.  Here's a list https://www.rmbprivatebank.com/downloads/RMBPrivateBank/SARB_BoP_Codes_for_Inwards_Transactions.pdf

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