Is the Christian God Moral?

[Anacoluthon64]

Thanks for the compliments.  They are gracefully accepted, always. 

I even received a laudatory PM about the same post, and I hope the sender doesn’t consider it an indiscretion that I reveal this.  Thanks lots to you, too – you know who you are!

'Luthon64

[Sentinel]

Guys and gals (Respectfully said)

The point of this thread was to debate the morality of the teachings of the Bible. Morality being what whe as a society deems to be acceptable.

To date, this has been an interesting insight into the incompatibility of individual belief sytems, but the core question remains unanswered...

Are we prepared to live by those standards (The Biblical God's) in it's entirety, and more importantly... are we willing to force our children to live by them? If so - for how much longer?

[bluegray V]

I agree with Sentinel. Please stick to his topic or start a new one.
Some recent posts were split to Morality and the 10 Commandments

[Anacoluthon64]

It seems that we can add arson and vandalism to an ever-expanding list of the christian god’s misdemeanours.  The recent destruction by fire of the KwaSizabantu Mission auditorium could mean any of several different things.  Perhaps the christian god doesn’t have a wireman’s licence and plays with electricity.  Or maybe s/he doesn’t like a certain type or class of worshipper and wants to make this clear in no uncertain terms by torching their place of worship.

However, what is at least as interesting about this event is the reactions to it, as voiced by believers.  The rubber-duck syndrome is never so amusing as when it attempts to call a hatful of anvils a buoy.  The auditorium fire was caused by an electrical fault and the building burned down before fire fighters could get to the scene.  The response?  “Wherever God is at work, the devil is also there to do his dirty counter work. I’m of the opinion that the depth of God’s work can be measured by the amount of opposition encountered.” – Reverend Erlo Stegen.

In other words, the devil did it to spit in the christian god’s eye, and this god was unable, unwilling or unknowing to prevent it happening to his/her own house.  But how does Rev. Stegen actually know that it was the devil, rather than his god in a fit of pique?  The short version is, he doesn’t – same as the long version, which entails something called “faith.”

Rev. Stegen goes on with such unsinkable gusto as to give a circus clown serious face-cramps to explain that the fire was in some sense actually his god’s will because “this fire is not the end of anything, but the beginning of something new and far greater and better than before.”  The mind can only boggle.  As a somewhat peripheral aside, Rev. Stegen is also reported as having seen “the debilitating and devastating impact of ancestral worship and witchcraft.” It is unlikely that the good Reverend will realise the deeply sad irony of that account.

All of the above gives yet another slant to the christian god’s morality: s/he seems not only to like expressions of doltishness but positively encourages ham-fisted stupidity at the cost of all reason.  In short, one would quickly question both the sanity and morality of a cult leader who insisted that his or her followers must, as an admission requirement, undergo a lobotomy.

'Luthon64

[Skeptic]

I find it hard to see any morality in the Christian God. There are just way too many contradictions, personal interests, blind faith ideas to make it all to make sense. There is also the question of the definition of morality. I have an itch that the word has been kidnapped by Christians for exclusive use.

[Sentinel]

It seems that we can add arson and vandalism to an ever-expanding list of the christian god’s misdemeanours.  The recent destruction by fire of the KwaSizabantu Mission auditorium could mean any of several different things.  Perhaps the christian god doesn’t have a wireman’s licence and plays with electricity.  Or maybe s/he doesn’t like a certain type or class of worshipper and wants to make this clear in no uncertain terms by torching their place of worship.

I have heard from a source that the above organisation is receiving donations from all over the world to rebuild the auditorium.

Not only are they operating a farm, with many sources of income through produce and normal donations from their thousands of followers and benefactors,THEY ARE INSURED!

Like the late George Carlin said: (more or less) There is this God in the sky that has a special place for you if you disobey him, where you will be tortured and burned etc. for all eternity...... "but he loves you........ and HE NEEDS MONEY!"

(RIP George Carlin)

[Peter H]

NO

[Sentinel]

NO

YES!

[AcinonyxScepticus]

NO

YES!

MU!!   

[wandapec]

NO

YES!

Brilliant!

[scienceteacherinexile]

I don't even ponder questions like this.
Since there is no Christian God, he can be neither moral or immoral.

The only way to approach such a discussion would be similar to debating whether Beowulf was moral or not.  It would be more difficult with the Bible, because of so many authors and translations.  With Beowulf (or whichever work of fiction you choose), it is often helpful to analyse what the author's intention is.  That is quite impossible, I think, with the Bible.

[Sentinel]

I don't even ponder questions like this.
Since there is no Christian God, he can be neither moral or immoral.

...similar to debating whether Beowulf was moral or not.

The difference is that Beowulf is not part of our everyday life.  Beowulfians do not tell us how to live and think and do not influence our children.  We all know about the Greek god, Zeus, but we know it's a myth and interpret the literature about him accordingly.

This morning I was consulted about an incident with a "Christian".  (I use the term loosely, as I do not want to generalise - although what follows is a fairly common response in my experience).

Whenever my friend came in contact with this person, the conversation was always steered towards punting the Bible and its teachings.

My friend, having entertained this for long enough, shared her opinion that she did not believe in any of it, since it cannot be proven.  She also mentioned some of the atrocities and absurdities in the teachings with which she was in disagreement.  Needless to say, the "Christian" exploded into a violent rage, condemning her to hell etc.

What gives him the right to react like that when his meme is rejected?  Maybe it is a sign that he doubts his own belief, although hidden in the subconscious, and does not like to have it prodded.  Can he not allow others to think and live for themselves?

This intolerance and bigotry is taught by God in the book that He wrote. (Apparently)

Maybe atheists should also react so violently when someone mentions anything remotely religious.  We could curse, threaten with murder & violence and rant and rave like lunatics when someone says: "God bless you!".

It will perhaps serve as confirmation to them that we are demon possessed! Have they thought about what they look like. 

Beowulf bless... 

Sentinel

[Peter H]

NO

YES!

Brilliant!

I have thought about this and there is no answer. My view is no but if I look at the state of the world today I realise that a lot of people actually live and even lead nations based on those morals. Brilliant no, but true yes.

[Sentinel]

Hi Peter H,

Thanks for expanding on your previous statement.

A great source for "morality" is our common law.  What makes it great is the fact that it is not static, but rather a set of documents compiled by and for our current society.  It is not perfect, but strives to be perfect through constant scrutiny and adaptation.  (Also, the ability and freedom to challenge it makes it what it is today.)

Apparently, +/- 2000 to 6000 years ago, some entity created laws by which we should live.  These laws are not only questionable, but reflects the mindset of early stone- and iron age civilizations.  Change it, and die!

a lot of people actually live and even lead nations based on those morals.

These "morals" do rule our society... world wide!

Richard Dawkins stated in his book, The God Delusion, that we do not seem to obtain our morals from a religious source.  The religious believe that religion is central to our morality and that without one, you cannot have the other.

In a way, religion has copyrighted and hijacked the term morality.

If we cannot take a fundamental approach to the Bible, can we demythologise it and learn from it?  Is, what is being taught through the Bible, something that we, as a modern society, can benefit from?  In some cases, I would say that some great concepts are being taught by the Bible, although these are far from revolutionary.

We now have a compilation of some arbitrary "morals", packaged with some vial, draconian ideals and marketed as a guideline and compass for all "good" people.

Society assumes that the religious are "moral" citizens with statements like: "He's a Christian, he would never do that!" or "Don't listen to him, he's an Atheist!"

NO

...was, in fact,  the correct answer, (In my opinion) although society may disagree with us.

[Peter H]

A great source for "morality" is our common law. 

In a way, religion has copyrighted and hijacked the term morality.

Thanks. This answers the question for me.