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Faith healing

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topmedia
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« on: October 26, 2007, 18:31:28 PM »

James Randi, in this week's SWIFT newsletter, published a lengthy letter from one Marius Myburg, who has been in touch with one Danie Joubert (both presumably South Africans), about the latter's very strong claims for evidence of miraculous healing through faith. Mr Myburg challenged Mr Joubert to produce evidence of such healings, and apparently Mr Joubert accepted the challenge. We have something to look forward to now that rubymania is subsiding...
Mr Myburg describes himself as a sceptic. Is he a member of SA Skeptics, and if not, does anyone know him and/or Danie Joubert and the latter's claims which led to the challenge?
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Mefiante
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2007, 10:04:28 AM »

Mr Myburg describes himself as a sceptic. Is he a member of SA Skeptics, and if not, does anyone know him and/or Danie Joubert and the latter's claims which led to the challenge?
Sorry, don't know × 2.

However, one thing is reasonably certain:  Joubert's and Myburg's respective ideas about what constitutes "evidence" will be very different.

'Luthon64
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bluegray
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2007, 10:54:45 AM »

Probably best to contact him. His blog is here: Marius Myburg's Blog
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 10:57:48 AM by bluegray V » Logged
MariusMyburg
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 21:40:10 PM »

Hi,

I am Marius Myburg.  I typed my name into google to see if I could learn something about myself that I did not know already  Smiley, and I eventually reached the SA Skeptics website.

Before a few minutes ago, I was not a member of SA Skeptics, but I am glad to report that I am now.

Regarding the challenge to Danie - well, as you might expect, he has not provided me with any proof yet.  He sent me some videos in which the Nigerian T.B. Joshua apparently healed people, but of course that is not the kind of proof he promised.  He even admitted to me that the videos does not constitute proof of any kind.  As James Randi suggested to me, I will keep bugging him for the proof he claims 'is out there'.  But as James also said; this is as far as these people usually go.  So sadly, this is not likely to become a very exciting event.

It is really funny; yesterday and today I kept asking more and more questions about the fact that humans are animals (Danie, believing in creationism, says he is not an animal).  He told me that he is an "Adamite".  From the Adam and Eve myth....

In the meantime I have had disagreement after disagreement with another work colleague, and just today I challenged her to provide me with proof that ESP exists; specifically, she claims that twins can communicate telepathically.  She hasn't replied yet - let's see if she accepts the challenge.

Anyway, I'm glad to be a part of this community.

- Marius.

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bluegray
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 22:18:59 PM »

You are most welcome! Please keep us updated if you receive any replies. Although as you said, it's not very likely... Wink
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Mefiante
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007, 10:28:47 AM »

Hello, and welcome to the forum MariusMyburg.  Like e-mail, Google can at times be both a blessing and a curse… Wink

With regard to your colleague who believes in telepathy between twins, I think you first need to narrow down what kind(s) of information she believes twins can exchange telepathically.  If it's a case of things that are suitably vague or trivially true or reasonably easy to deduce (e.g. "My twin isn't feeling very thirsty right now.") then clearly that can't be considered as evidence.  Conversely, if the twin is consistently able to report correctly what object the other, out of sight twin, is holding in his/her hand at a given moment, then that would be considerably more convincing.

Have you asked her whether she thinks triplets, quadruplets, etc., also have such a telepathic link?  Does she know about "hot reading" and "cold reading?"  Is she aware that, worldwide, there are an estimated 125 million human twins and triplets, i.e. about two-and-a-half times SA's current population, so that one would expect evidence for her belief to be appreciably better than it actually is?

But, yes, as bluegray V requests, please keep us updated of developments, if any, in these matters.

'Luthon64
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MariusMyburg
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 12:21:31 PM »

Hi,

The colleague claims that if you put ESP-capable twins in seperate rooms, i.e. if they are isolated from eath other completely, they are able to know what the other is thinking.

Of course, she might be correct; the one will think "O heck, I have no idea what my twin is thinking!" and the other twin will think the same thing!

- Marius.
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scienceteacheragain
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2007, 17:45:23 PM »

Hi all, and welcome Marius.
It just so happens that I have twin boys (age 4).
When it comes to getting into trouble, it most certainly does seem like they are reading each other's mind.
By 3, they would lie to people about who was who when someone couldn't tell. Wink
But in reality, I've not seen anything that would convince me this is the case.
And I doubt I'll be testing them anytime soon.
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